110k

[WESHOOT2]

From the bleachers:



Smart folks looking for reliability and durability need look no further than Honda and Toyota.
Honda costs more, but provides (significantly) more driving joy.

Every other brand except Lexus is a crap-shoot.
Think carefully about Bell Curves.........

IMNSHO&E Suzuki is equal to the two mentioned above.

[KuroNekko]

From the bleachers:



Smart folks looking for reliability and durability need look no further than Honda and Toyota.
Honda costs more, but provides (significantly) more driving joy.

Every other brand except Lexus is a crap-shoot.
Think carefully about Bell Curves.........

IMNSHO&E Suzuki is equal to the two mentioned above.

I personally think Honda and Toyota's reputation is hugely exaggerated by Americans. Yes, they are both very good cars for reliability, but I really don't think they are much better than other Japanese makes, especially if the car was made in Japan. I've owned only Japanese cars but haven't owned any of the "Big Japanese 3" which are Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. My cars were Suzuki, Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Mazda. All were reliable and rather comparable to the Toyotas and Hondas owned by my friends and family. I think a lot of people make the mistake of shopping by brand instead of model. Some people want to get a Toyota and Honda and then their budget determines whether it's a Civic, Accord, or Acura or a Corolla, Camry, or Lexus. Some people don't really consider a lot of the other choices in the segment due to brand loyalty, brand image, etc.

Another factor is that some brands have improved over the years yet consumers are very reluctant to see that. For example, Buick, Audi, and Kia have come up significantly in reliability ratings. Meanwhile, some like Honda have gone down for reasons ranging from quality control issues with the Fit to the problematic DCT/Torque converter auto in the Acura TLX. It's been so bad, Honda executives in Japan got their salaries slashed as punishment.
Toyota often remains at the top but they are rather notorious for offering the same old powertrain in their newer models. They basically like to stick to what works rather than innovating and improving like the others.
Mazda is also a brand that has rose significantly in reliability ever since they parted ways with Ford. Their SkyActiv powertrains are reliable, efficient, and don't often rely on forced induction compared to many segment rivals. These Mazdas are not only reliable, but noticeably more fun to drive than most of their counterparts including direct rivals from Toyota and Honda because Mazda actually focuses a lot on chassis and suspension engineering.
Subaru is also another brand that has finally got some recognition for their quality. Their sales are at their highest ever as many people have turned to them after years of getting Toyotas and Hondas. Subarus are safer and have AWD which make them superior in winter climates. Their setback used to be fuel economy but their recent powertrains have pretty much made AWD no longer a penalty while still offering some of the best AWD systems in the industry.
Suzuki and Mitsubishi also made solid cars too, but their lack of competent management greatly tarnished them. Made in Japan Suzukis have always been rather good while offering a better value than Honda and Toyota. I also liked that they offered something different. Suzuki offered a real 4x4 compact SUV until the end in the US unlike most of the industry. Mitsubishi is also an underdog whose cars aren't as bad as people think. Their reliability ratings are usually up there among Toyota and Honda and they have the longest ownership duration of just about any brand. If these cars were junk, people couldn't and wouldn't hold on to them so long. I honestly see a good number of 10+ year old Mitsubishi Montero Sports on the road. Galants and Eclipses are also a common sight and these cars went out of production years ago.

Kia and Hyundai have come up significantly and offer very good cars for a better value than top Japanese brands. While I don't consider their cars interesting to drive, the value proposition is certainly there without compromising much on features and quality these days.
I also think GM has certainly come up recently. Their cars keep impressing me and their commitment to new powertrain technology is something I like. From the Volt, Malibu Hybrid, to the new Bolt, it looks like they are really innovating. Their interior quality is also so much better than the past and makes for a better place to be than many comparable Toyotas, IMO.

For me, I like Toyota and Honda quite a bit but I wouldn't buy one for the sake of "superior" reliability or quality. I'd get them for their unique offerings in the market and most importantly, technology. No one else has the hybrid experience of Toyota and certainly don't offer as many as they do. I also like Toyota best for their trucks. While I wouldn't buy a Corolla or Camry over their competition, the 4Runner and Land Cruiser are venerable trucks in the market that not only offer world-leading reliability, but capability and longevity.
Honda offers excellent hybrids too, but their specialty in my mind are normally aspirated 4 cylinders. I think they make the best 4 cylinder engines on the planet and their impressive 4 banger powerplants in everything from the S2000, Integra, to the TSX is proof.

While I certainly think Hondas and Toyotas are very good and are often solid choices for reliability, it's not like the rest are significantly worse, save for some bottom-feeders like FCA-brand cars, MINI, and some VWs. It's more shoulder-to-shoulder these days and many rivals offer considerable reasons to choose them over Honda and Toyota. Like I said, it would require a hybrid to get me into one of those these days.

[WESHOOT2]

In our harsh environment we get to see what holds up.
Rust remains the biggest failing of brands other than H&T.

[KuroNekko]

In our harsh environment we get to see what holds up.
Rust remains the biggest failing of brands other than H&T.

Toyotas and Hondas are indeed good cars, but they aren't without their known issues.
Some Toyotas are rather well-known for rust issues including older Tacomas, Tundras, and 4Runners. It was so bad on some Tacomas, they were recalled multiple times.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/690000-toy ... rake-line/

Hondas have some of the worst paint in the industry and I often see mid-2000's Hondas with peeling paint while other brands of the same age look fine. This is especially evident in states with a lot of sun exposure like in the Southwest. They also had some problematic automatic transmissions mated to their V6 models and the vast majority of their high mileage cars are 4 cylinders, it seems.

While I certainly think Toyotas and Hondas were better than the rest in the past, the gap has narrowed significantly and H&T has been somewhat resting on their laurels, IMO. I also think sales figures factor in why there are so many of them around years later. They sell much better than many rivals so statistically speaking, more of them would be around years later, creating an illusion that they last longer. They are certainly great cars, but over in Japan, they don't enjoy the reputation of being more reliable or significantly better built than the rest. Cars are generally regarded the same in reliability and it's about the tax classification and features of the car that sells them, not the perceived quality of the brand.

[Ronzuki]

Should I need to ever replace the K, I'll forgo the AWD and seriously consider the Mazda 6 (I have the Heep). Nice driving car very similar to the K (as far as ya can tell w/ the sales lady sitting in the seat next to you). Down-side is it's bigger than the perfect, for me, size of the Kizashi.

My VYofE with Suzuki is that their Japanese built models, which are all I've ever owned, are hands down the best most reliable vehicles I've ever owned for the money. Never owned Honda auto (cycle yes)...never cared for the over-priced stigma and attitude. Had a few Toys over the years and they were all extremely reliable as well although at a higher price-point, even used.

[KuroNekko]

This video has recently surfaced regarding the Jeep Renegade. Basically, when the vehicle brakes hard at high speeds, the rear wheels can lift up off the ground, creating a very dangerous condition for a number of reasons.
The Motor Trend article goes into details:
http://www.motortrend.com/news/jeep-ren ... -on-video/

[nytq]

It's been a great run with Suzuki, but she was replaced today with the Renegade. Got a 2016 manual 4x4 for 20k. So different from the suk, so far pleased. Still getting used to it. Btw despite being praised on trade in condition, only got 3200 for her , I know it will be a different experience, but that is what I'm looking for. Wish all you the best with few kizashis left. Signing off

[KuroNekko]

It's been a great run with Suzuki, but she was replaced today with the Renegade. Got a 2016 manual 4x4 for 20k. So different from the suk, so far pleased. Still getting used to it. Btw despite being praised on trade in condition, only got 3200 for her , I know it will be a different experience, but that is what I'm looking for. Wish all you the best with few kizashis left. Signing off

Congrats on the Renegade. I actually like those too so pop in once in a while to update us. I like that it's an affordable manual with 4x4 which is very rare these days in the States. The trade-in for the Kizashi is shockingly low, but given you had over 100K miles and that it's an orphaned Suzuki, I guess it's the reality. At least you got everything you wanted out of the Kizashi.
Best of luck!

[Ronzuki]

Ditto, stick around and let us know how things are with the Heep! Briefly looked at Renegade before settling in on the RAV4 for our daughter.

[WESHOOT2]

So sad for your Kizashi passing; good luck with your new Jeep.
Ditto keep on reporting......