Cvt concerns!!

Ask technical questions or post on problems/issues related to the Kizashi under this topic. Symptoms and pictures of your problem are a good idea.
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Speed_Racer
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SamirD wrote:
Over time, this damage can lead to things like what you described. My really good friend who's an ASE mechanic had to replace his 98 Accord transmission twice because he kept shifting this way. My 94 Accord never had such problems. :D
Just as a side note, the AT in that generation (1997+) of Accords are notoriously bad and have a high failure rate (for a Honda). I've had several friends w/ those models have to get them replaced under 100k miles.

So might not be 100% attributable to shifter shock, though I completely agree that it's no good for transmissions anyways! :)
'12 Kizashi,'03 SV650,'04 DL1000
SamirD
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Speed_Racer wrote:
SamirD wrote:
Over time, this damage can lead to things like what you described. My really good friend who's an ASE mechanic had to replace his 98 Accord transmission twice because he kept shifting this way. My 94 Accord never had such problems. :D
Just as a side note, the AT in that generation (1997+) of Accords are notoriously bad and have a high failure rate (for a Honda). I've had several friends w/ those models have to get them replaced under 100k miles.

So might not be 100% attributable to shifter shock, though I completely agree that it's no good for transmissions anyways! :)
Honda specifically made the transmission in the next generation unable to shift if it was going above 5 mph. :mrgreen: While there probably isn't any public evidence that it was shift shock damage, I'm willing to bet on it. ;)
smsmart
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SamirD wrote:This is known as 'shift shock'.

I've noticed that any automatic transmission that's had someone shift without a complete stop--even once--will have this damage. It's the main reason I don't give my cars to dealership to drive. Two of my cars that I bought brand new came back with shift shock after I had to give them for service--even after telling the service people I want it shifted like it says in the manual!
The last time I had my Kizashi serviced at the dealer, the service manager was pulling the car out of a parking spot and shifted the car from reverse into drive while the car was still moving--all right in front of me. I can't even tell you how much I cringed at that moment :x
SamirD
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smsmart wrote:
SamirD wrote:This is known as 'shift shock'.

I've noticed that any automatic transmission that's had someone shift without a complete stop--even once--will have this damage. It's the main reason I don't give my cars to dealership to drive. Two of my cars that I bought brand new came back with shift shock after I had to give them for service--even after telling the service people I want it shifted like it says in the manual!
The last time I had my Kizashi serviced at the dealer, the service manager was pulling the car out of a parking spot and shifted the car from reverse into drive while the car was still moving--all right in front of me. I can't even tell you how much I cringed at that moment :x
They all do this...and then we pay the price. This is the primary reason I never let anyone drive any of my cars. Hell, the guy at the Porsche dealership did it to my Boxster even after I talked to him AT LENGTH about how I want my car driven!

So I've been reading a lot of the Kizashi service manuals and I just happened to run into the section on the CVT road tests.
Time Lag Test

This test is performed to check conditions of clutch, brake and fluid pressure. “Time lag” means time elapsed since select lever is shifted with engine idling till shock is felt.
1) Connect scan tool to DLC.
2) Select “Data list” mode on scan tool.
3) Drive vehicle so that CVT fluid temperature reaches normal operating temperature (50 – 80 °C (122 – 176 °F)).
NOTE:
Engine coolant temperature rises when revving engine in “P” or “N” range, but CVT fluid temperature does not rise in “P” or “N” range. Be sure to drive vehicle in order to raise CVT fluid temperature.
4) Apply parking brake and block wheels.
5) Start engine.
6) Depress brake pedal.
7) With stopwatch ready, shift select lever from “N” to “D” range and measure time from that moment till shock is felt.
8) Similarly measure time lag by shifting select lever from “N” to “R” range.
Gear shifting time lag
“N” → “D”: Less than 3.0 sec.
“N” → “R”: Less than 3.0 sec.
NOTE:
• When repeating this test, be sure to wait at least 1 minute after select lever is shifted back to “N” range.
• Engine should be warmed up fully for this test.
• Repeat test 3 times and take average of those data for final time lag data.

Code: Select all

Troubleshooting Condition	Possible Cause	Action
 “N” → “D” time lag exceeds specification 	 Low line pressure 	 Perform “Line Pressure Test”.   
 Slippery forward clutch 	 Replace CVT assembly. 
 Broken forward clutch piston oil seal 	 Replace CVT assembly. 
 “N” → “R” time lag exceeds specification 	 Low line pressure 	 Perform “Line Pressure Test”.   
 Slippery reverse brake 	 Replace CVT assembly. 
 Broken reverse brake piston oil seal 	 Replace CVT assembly.
That last table didn't translate so well, but the gist of it is, do a line pressure test or replace the CVT. :shock:

I was considering giving the Kizashi to someone to change the tires to winter, but forget that now. It won't take much to trash the CVT. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably why Nissan is having so many problems with them...just like Honda did with their trannys back in 98.
SamirD
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SamirD wrote:Honda specifically made the transmission in the next generation unable to shift if it was going above 5 mph. :mrgreen: While there probably isn't any public evidence that it was shift shock damage, I'm willing to bet on it. ;)
And I just remembered that in the 2010 Kizashi owners manual, it mentioned that a D to R shift wouldn't work above 6mph. If this tranny breaks, I know what the previous owners were doing. :(
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Moto
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Only real major complaint I have ever seen with this car is the CVT. Several of them went bad early on in the production run. Some of our original members were here specifically to complain about the CVT.

I think the had the bugs mostly worked out after some of the early 2010 models. (Plus a firmware update or two for the older cars)
smsmart
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My Dad had a CVT in his Subaru Justy back in the early 90's...boy what a piece of crap that was. Even after twenty years, it still seems like CVT's are not quite there yet, judging by the comments on here and my own experience with CVT performance. Suffice it to say that I don't see myself buying another car with a CVT again. Just not worth it given the performance and reliability issues.
Bizzenn
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Something co noticed about mine is that when the A/C is off, it idles to low when in gear and vibrates pretty bad. Once you let off the brake or turn the ac on, it goes from 600 to 700 rpm. Also when coming to a quick stop, it will drop like it's going to stall and rise again. Never stalls though. Any thoughts?
murcod
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Bizzenn wrote:Something co noticed about mine is that when the A/C is off, it idles to low when in gear and vibrates pretty bad. Once you let off the brake or turn the ac on, it goes from 600 to 700 rpm. Also when coming to a quick stop, it will drop like it's going to stall and rise again. Never stalls though. Any thoughts?
I've read the rev dropping when stopping/ nearly stalling symptoms before on here.

I'm not sure about the other problem with low idle and vibrations? It sounds like the "old school" auto transmissions, when you put them in "drive" the engine loads up trying to move the car against the brakes. The Kizashi does have the torque converter so it might be something similar? The engine ECU can control the idle speed but perhaps it has a wide tolerance of an "acceptable" idle speed?
David
SamirD
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I think it is just a matter of the specs and settings. The AC switch on most cars will turn on a secondary fan, so for the additional load, the ecu may compensate by increasing the rpms. The default idle may be just a tad too low since most cars it's in the 600-700 rpm range, while it seems like it is near 500 on ours.

Makes me want to go out and get an obd2 scan tool with logging to diagnose it further. :mrgreen:
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