Kizashi Club

Hello!

Just wanted to give you a little backstory I have owned my Kizashi since October last year I got it with 150k km's on the clock.

Now for my issues
I will be driving along and all of a sudden I notice the car reving from 2k rpm to 2.5k it spikes for a second or two then goes back down to 2k rev's. After this happens 2-3 times the check engine light will come on and the cruse control will cut out and wont let me use it unless I restart the car 5 times to clear the check engine light. This was happening originally once every week or 2 but now has got to the stage when driving back from Calgary last week it would do it every 20km or so making it very annoying.

To note when I took it into the Suzuki dealership they think its a faulty dash instrument cluster or wiring behind the cluster itself. They apparently check all the other wiring harness's which tested fine. Also they found a small piece of metal in the rear differential plug when they went to change the oil over.

Changing the battery back in November did seem to help at least initially for maybe a month but I was not driving the car much at that point.

Scanned codes were U0231, U0073, U0100, U0114, U0121, U0151, U0155, U0164.
I have noticed the check engine light, the service AWD system light, the traction control light and the steering light warnings have come on at different times.

Ideally I think its either issue with wiring, loss of power to parts of the car maybe due to a dieing battery "even though its a new battery maybe the alternator is no good?"
A faulty dash instrument cluster or something wrong with the gearbox or diff as it does that random reving possibly due to the CVT slipping?

I love my Kizashi and so does my wife I hate to see it not working the way I wish it did, I am unsure if I should bother to keep looking at fixing it or just cut my losses and sell it.

Any advise what people think it might be or if anyone had anything similar please at this stage any advise is welcomed.

Outback_Yak

Hello, and welcome.
Did Suzuki Service give you a definition of what each of the codes they scanned are?
I'm curious and it would save me time pulling out the old XP PC and firing it up to access the FSM to retrieve the definitions.

Definitions from the CAN DTC (Lost Comms and Comms Bus Off) Table in the FSM:

U0231 - Lost Communications
U0073 - Control Module Comms Bus Off. ECM fails to transmit and receive data via CAN for specified time continuously.
Affects: ECM/TCM/ESP/HVAC/BCM/Keyless Start Control Module/Combination Meter/PS Control Module/4WD Control/SDM. In a nutshell, everything that make the car tick.

U0100 - BCM (Body Control Module) Lost comms w/ ECM
U0114 - Lost Comms w/ 4WD Control Module
U0121 - Lost Comms w/ABS/ESP Control Module (this is a TCM code)
U0151 - Lost Comms w/ Restraints Control Module
U0155 - Lost Comms w/ Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC)
U0164 - Lost comms w/HVAC Control Module

Unless someone took something apart and damaged wiring, I'd highly doubt that a 'broken' wire is the culprit. Possible from the factory? Yes, but not likely. To your knowledge, has the car been flooded, or, has anyone screwed around with say aftermarket stereo equipment or other unsanctioned electrical 'upgrades'? This is why I feel anyone monkeying around with a modern day auto's wiring is absolutely insane. Unless you REALLY know what you're doing, the days of the backyard hack wiring jobs are long over. Essentially, you have a serious CAN bus communications issue within the car's nervous system.

I suppose one thing the average owner can do w/o the Suzuki scan tools is disconnect and reconnect all wiring connectors to all of the control modules starting w/ the ECM itself. First step in FSM diag procedures. This type of simple disconnect/reconnect action has fixed many a problem in my line of work. What criteria did the service experts give you that led them to believe the IPC was the culprit among the long list of other modules affected?

I'd be more inclined to suspect the ECM itself since it's the bus master, and short of putting a scope on the CAN bus to check signal quality, parts darting the ECM maybe an expensive poke-n-hope. A brief purview of the ECM terminating resistance check looks as though there's a Suzuki (scan) tool involved there as well. U231 and U0073 are your primary failure codes. The remainder are the subsequent collateral damage codes involving each control module due to the fact that that the car's comms are screwed and comms w/ the ECM is not reliable. This points to ECM or possibly comms wiring / connectors. It is also very possible one of the other modules is faulty and dragging the entire comms network down. I'd imagine finding it w/o the proper Suzuki scan tools, a FSM for diag procedures and a direct link to Suzuki corporate tech support would be near impossible.

Curious if the place you took it to is really capable of the type of electronics diag that is going to be necessary to resolve your issue. IMHO and experience, I've only ever met one wrench turner in my life that was as good at electronics diag, or better, as he was at the mechanical aspect of the job. The guy had the equipment and really knew how to use it as well as possessed the mindset to troubleshoot methodically.

Unfortunately, cutting your losses is a moot point. No one is going to give you anything for a car with this many codes set, especially codes of this type. You're going to have to rely on Suzuki to resolve the issue(s) somehow otherwise you own an expensive electronics project on four wheels. Good Luck to you sir.

I agree with Ronzuki. I was typing my comment but then I saw his new one come up which basically said what I was going to suggest. I too looked up the codes and these all indicate a "loss of communication" type of error which would most logically make sense if the Powertrain Control Module/Engine Control Unit was faulty. However, before faulting the PCM/ECU, make sure the main harnesses are in good condition and that the vehicle's grounding points are in good order.

Here is the resource where I looked up the problem codes which matched what Ronzuki wrote.
http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/ ... -codes.php

Thank you for your insight, I agree would be hard to sell the car, is there a specialist auto electrician I need to look at taking it too? What kind of expenses should I be looking at? Car has never been in a accident I highly doubt it's been flooded, no mods to the stereo BUT it does have an after market remote starter which may be playing havok with things?
I looked at getting a instrument cluster from a car wreaker for $150 much more resonable compared to the Suzuki dealerships $400 for a new one, from what I gather this won't fix my issues, the deals hip charged me $450 just to give me guesses at what the issues could be so I'd rather not bother with them as I doubt they can work out the issue.
Besides disconnecting a reconnecting every module should I be looking to replace the ECM with that from another car? Not sure what I can do myself, Suzuki has abandoned Canada all that is left for me is the rip off merchant who use to be the dealership which seem to no know what the issue is besides "maybe it's the dash instrument cluster"
What else can I possibly do to potentially diagnose the issue?

Outback_Yak wrote:Thank you for your insight, I agree would be hard to sell the car, is there a specialist auto electrician I need to look at taking it too? What kind of expenses should I be looking at? Car has never been in a accident I highly doubt it's been flooded, no mods to the stereo BUT it does have an after market remote starter which may be playing havok with things?
I looked at getting a instrument cluster from a car wreaker for $150 much more resonable compared to the Suzuki dealerships $400 for a new one, from what I gather this won't fix my issues, the deals hip charged me $450 just to give me guesses at what the issues could be so I'd rather not bother with them as I doubt they can work out the issue.
Besides disconnecting a reconnecting every module should I be looking to replace the ECM with that from another car? Not sure what I can do myself, Suzuki has abandoned Canada all that is left for me is the rip off merchant who use to be the dealership which seem to no know what the issue is besides "maybe it's the dash instrument cluster"
What else can I possibly do to potentially diagnose the issue?

I'd start by removing the remote starter. Once that is done but proves to not resolve the issues, check the harnesses for any damage and check grounding points. I believe the locations of these are detailed in the Suzuki Service Manual available here:
http://www.kizashiclub.com/forum/viewto ... =32&t=3192
If those are crossed off the list, I'd take it to a specialist to have it properly diagnosed, but I think at that point, you'll need a new ECM; a $1500 part.

Outback_Yak wrote:...BUT it does have an after market remote starter which may be playing havok with things?

DING, DING, DING...there's your likely culprit.
Once again, 'someone' was messing around with the car's nervous system and screwed something up. Before buying anything and wasting money playing parts darts, I'd strongly recommend locating and removing any non-OE aftermarket BS that was added to the car. Put things back to factory original and go from there. Whether you have someone else look at it or not, I'd go back to original condition and work from there. During the process, you may come across a faulty wire, some type of bastardization or a messed up connector.
As far as cost goes, Suzuki, or anyone else, would be happy to charge you T&M all day long until, maybe, they figure it out. Nobody I know would quote a fixed price for a problem such as this. If it were still under warranty a dealer would walk away, deny the warranty claim and black-flag the vehicle's VIN w/ that aftermarket remote starter in there.

Awesome thanks for the advice, I am not very savy with Electronics at all but I will for sure look into this in the next few days when I get time, not sure how I will go removing the remote starter or where its located! I just hope thats the issue.

Quick question looking at my options here, I took it to a family mechanic this time and he also confirmed its an issue between the BCM and ECM but couldnt determine which or if its wiring. I wonder if I pick up either of these 2 parts from a car wrecker/parts shop if they will work in my car or if it has to be coded to the specific body to be able to interact with all the other parts? I got told that only a certified Suzuki dealership would have such equipment and wondering now they have left Canada for a while if its even possible to go down that road?
I priced a second hand ECM at $175 but not sure if picking up these parts will even be a viable option.

Apologies for my ignorance but not an expert at all and appreciate your help!

Yak.

Not sure how anyone is determining the exact conflict in comms is between ECM and BCM w/o going through the rather lengthy and detailed diag procedures with the very specific Suzuki equipment mentioned in the FSM given the fault codes you have involve nearly every module in the car on the CANbus network. Until you remove the root cause of the malfunction (likely that remote starter installation), swapping out modules is fruitless and expensive. All that'll likely do is damage yet another module. Have your family member/mechanic help you find and remove the remote starter, shouldn't be too hard to locate. Look for wiring that doesn't match w/ the majority of the car and trace it all out. Then, if things are still flakey or non-functional, Suzuki or somebody else can more easily follow the diag procedures for a stock OE equipped vehicle and pinpoint the now faulty OE component(s). Get on Suzuki Auto's website to locate a service center near you. I can't stress this enough, the FSM procedures do not account for any other aftermarket non-sense installed in the car. As I said, even if you took it to a Suzuki Service Center, they'd certainly prefer, maybe even require, the car to be factory original...especially for a control module comm problem which is difficult enough to pinpoint under the best of circumstances.

When I am called out to industrial facilities to troubleshoot 'issues' the first thing I do is obtain the electrical drawings for the control systems as they were installed and commissioned originally by us or other automation supplier (the FSM so to speak.) Next is a thorough survey assessing the current condition of the system and its controls. Often there's been 'features' (a remote starter in this case) added by people (maintenance, plant engineers, other suppliers, etc.) who have no clue as to what the original design specifications and engineering details were for the system and how their enhancements are going to play with the rest of the system. That's where I start my poking around and, 9.9 times out of 10, that's where the problems are emanating from. I can almost guarantee you that either the installer of the remote start system was a hack or the equipment itself is not of the best quality and/or incompatible w/ the car... or both. You' may likely find some very questionable physical connections into you car's wiring. The CAN bus wiring/cable is a twisted pair (red and white wires IIRC from last week's viewing of the FSM schematic) running to all the control modules mentioned in my post above.