Direct Injection

Ask technical questions or post on problems/issues related to the Kizashi under this topic. Symptoms and pictures of your problem are a good idea.
NOTE: Any car related technical question can be posted here.
WESHOOT2
Posts: 1975
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Vermont

And.................


................ask Tim again why he uses Mobil premium gas....................
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Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

LPSISRL, you are welcome sir. Kuro's an excellent sparring partner and I really do enjoy most all of his posts and our bantering. Probably should have driven down to DC and had a tasty cool beverage or two with him before he flipped coasts.

So, I just bought the Mazda, w/ DI, knowing the 'downside' and figured, eh, I'll do what I normally do maintenance-wise and if it starts to become too much of a problem (and/or the extended 'warranty' refuses to deal with it) then I'll do what I normally do and unload it in a timely fashion. The Heep cost me a little under $950/year in depreciation across a tad more than a 4 year span. Not horrible. Essentially swapped the 2014 Heep for the 2018 CX-5. A timely unload.

Problem w/ modern day car buying is there are far too many Pros and Cons to consider amongst a plethora of choices and you just have to make a decision on something. There is no perfect vehicle to check all of a car-guy's boxes. I think too much about cars, and my wife could care less.

Tim,
Mobil premium, any other top tier fuel or added fuel system/injector cleaners aren't very likely to have any significant effect on the DI engine's intake system. Only benefit is preventing the direct injectors from fouling. Back in my younger teen-age days pumping gas and working in a service station, I swore by the Amoco premium I ran. The proof was in the carb, intake system and back-side of the valves...squeaky clean and pure shine, no residue whatsoever. Compared to some not so well cared for intakes and carbs I'd pulled. Ran that stuff exclusively in my first new Samurai, a carb'd 1986, and never had a stich of fuel problems. It constantly gave me 30 mpgs just running around.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
WESHOOT2
Posts: 1975
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Vermont

Mobil use Chevron's Techtroline as its 'cleaner', and the premium blend, as noted by Mobil engineers, has enough that 40 gallons can equal a 'fuel injection cleaning'.

I also suggest it makes catalytic converters last much longer. Perhaps this is a function of increased octane, knock sensors, and timing.

As always, I've been wrong before........
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Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Chevron Techtron (black bottle) is the stuff I run in the cars, garden, tractor etc. Cleaned the Kizashi out after 3 consecutive tanks, a bottle per tank full...so that's roughly 40+ gallons then. Put a fourth bottle in which yielded little to nothing noticeable.

If you looked at LPSISRL's video link you'll see explained what I was referring to regarding fuel or fuel additives not likely being terribly effective on a DI engine's intake system which includes the back side (non-combustion chamber side) of the valves.
Last edited by Ronzuki on Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
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KuroNekko
Posts: 5170
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

Ronzuki wrote:LPSISRL, you are welcome sir. Kuro's an excellent sparring partner and I really do enjoy most all of his posts and our bantering. Probably should have driven down to DC and had a tasty cool beverage or two with him before he flipped coasts.
Haha, thanks for the nice remarks. I always thought a Mid-Atlantic Kizashi/Suzuki meet somewhere in PA would have been nice but personally seemed to run out of opportunities and time before I ended up moving. Given there seem to be more Kizashi owners in PA and the surrounding area, I still think PA is a great place for a meet-up.
LPSISRL wrote: My son just bought a CRV with DI. Now he's scratching his head wondering if he made a big mistake. It's all fun and games until you realize that your Honda engine that used to go 300K miles if you followed simple maintenance will now start to come apart at 100K if you don't have some major work done on it.
I personally don't think DI will cause major problems for every engine. I think it will vary from engine to engine, maker to maker. I think the earlier models that seemed to suddenly have them ahead of the pack will likely have fouling issues. I've read that Toyota had DI for close to a decade before they put it into production models because they wanted to make sure the technology wasn't going to compromise their reputation for reliability and longevity. They apparently knew of the fouling issues from R&D and waited to develop ways to reduce or prevent it. I believe Honda likely took this approach too as they were slower than rivals like Ford and Hyundai to implement DI.

If anything, I'd be more concerned with turbochargers, CVTs, and 7+ cogged automatic transmissions failing in the long run than an engine with DI. These newer technologies bring about complexities and vulnerabilities that may be worse than what DI presents. While I do agree that rather simple multiport injection engines like the Kizashi's J24B are among the best for long term usage with minimal problems, they simply don't offer the kind of fuel efficiency to be competitive with the newer models. Then again, saving money and saving gas are two different things. If I was to get something like a 2018 Honda Insight, it would be twice as fuel efficient as my Kizashi, saving me considerably in gas. However, it would take several years of ownership to save me money given the other costs associated with buying and operating a new car.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
vmendozad
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:29 pm

Great conversation that made me think more in depth about EV's and ICE vehicles. I have owned three Kizashi's with proper maintenance including CVT oil replacement. Very satisfied with reliability and service.
Besides being very conscious about the impact to the environment due to the production and ownership of any kind of vehicle, one important way that can significantly contributive is by keeping a vehicle for as long as possible with good maintenance, in that way we avoid the huge impact to the environment of producing a new vehicle. Our family current cars are more than 13 years old in average and keep running very strong. (2011 Nissan Quest - 90k miles, 2009 Toyota Tacoma - 95k miles, 2012 Suzuki Kizashi 145k miles, 2011 Toyota Prius 196k miles) .
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KuroNekko
Posts: 5170
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

vmendozad wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 4:11 pm Great conversation that made me think more in depth about EV's and ICE vehicles. I have owned three Kizashi's with proper maintenance including CVT oil replacement. Very satisfied with reliability and service.
Besides being very conscious about the impact to the environment due to the production and ownership of any kind of vehicle, one important way that can significantly contributive is by keeping a vehicle for as long as possible with good maintenance, in that way we avoid the huge impact to the environment of producing a new vehicle. Our family current cars are more than 13 years old in average and keep running very strong. (2011 Nissan Quest - 90k miles, 2009 Toyota Tacoma - 95k miles, 2012 Suzuki Kizashi 145k miles, 2011 Toyota Prius 196k miles) .
I agree. While EVs are often regarded as better for the environment, many have exaggerated perceptions about this. Due to the resources (and emissions) it takes to manufacture an EV, especially pertaining to their large batteries, it takes a few years of operation for an EV to offset a comparable ICE in total emissions. From that point on, EVs have far less of a carbon footprint but how much less depends on how it's charged. An EV charged by electricity powered by coal or fossil fuels will certainly have a greater emissions footprint than one charged from power generated by solar, wind, or hydroelectricity. The main determinant of this is largely where one is located. Most power in the US is generated by natural gas; a fossil fuel.

I do think the future will certainly favor EVs. Gov't mandates will force that in some way but I also think consumer preference will favor them more and more in the future. While EVs have some huge shortcomings, especially in cold weather, battery technology will inevitably improve. Once solid state batteries are implemented at wide scale at comparable prices to ICE models, I think most consumers will likely prefer EVs. While EVs might be a headache for some legacy automakers, most aren't ignoring them due to Tesla's shocking rise in popularity and stock value.

I personally favor hybrids and PHEVs as of now. I think they are a good transition vehicle for most people until battery tech improves for EVs. They are generally more reliable than EVs (and most ICE as well) while boosting the fuel efficiency of ICE. They also don't have range issues or subject to charging infrastructure hassles. For vehicles intended for offroad, winter, or remote area travel, I think they are far better suited. As an outdoor enthusiast, my next vehicle will certainly be a CUV or SUV with AWD or 4x4 but I will seek an electrified powertrain in the form of a hybrid or PHEV. I think Jeep and Toyota have catered to this well by offering their "4xe" and hybrid models. Toyota is doubling down on hybrids and the new Land Cruiser is exclusively a hybrid. The upcoming 4Runner will be based on the USDM Tacoma, which also has a hybrid version. The vehicle I'm personally waiting on is the smaller 4x4 they hinted at that is supposedly like a USDM Suzuki Jimny (BOF chassis with 4x4) but the size of a Corolla Cross. Details are unconfirmed but I expect that in a hybrid as well. I was hoping for a reveal at the last Tokyo Auto Show but they showcased an EV Land Cruiser instead. :roll:

I wish the Kizashi was more fuel efficient but it's not exactly a gas hog either. At 130,000 miles, my 2011 Sport GTS with the 6 speed manual really seems to get EPA estimates. Unfortunately, most of my driving these days is short city commutes so I'm getting in the low 20s most of the time. I love this car but it does mark the end of a traditional ICE for me as my next vehicle will certainly be electrified to boost fuel efficiency and lower emissions. I'm seeking to get something more efficient than the Kizashi while having much more ground clearance, cargo space, and AWD/4x4.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
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