Major Transmission Trouble

Ask technical questions or post on problems/issues related to the Kizashi under this topic. Symptoms and pictures of your problem are a good idea.
NOTE: Any car related technical question can be posted here.
Post Reply
User avatar
rannel.bradley
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 am

I have a 2011 Suzuki Kizashi SLS AWD with about 103000 miles. It’s an automatic with a CVT.

The CVT is the JFO11E with is also in the Sentra, Outlander, Lancer, Compass, Caliber, etc.

I haven’t really had any issues with this car so far and I absolutely love this car. It’s always had this sort of wavering of the rpms at constant speed (since I got the car at 90k miles). It would hover going up and down just a little bit which my partner always thought was odd. It was never an issue though and there was never any adverse effects. Never a check engine light or anything else.

About a month ago I ran over a big black plastic thing on my way home. The next time I was driving to work the check engine light came on. I thought it was strange but no big deal, and planned to have it looked at by my partner when I got home.

I stopped at a light and as soon as I made the turn the wheels lost all power. The car starts and runs but will not engage in any gear. I press down the gas and it’s revs but nothing happens. The transmission won’t engage.

I had it towed to my house and my partner ran his scan tool and the code comes up P0717 which is a bad speed sensor. The closest dealership is over an hour away and the car is out of warranty, just barely, so having it towed there didn't really seem practical. I found a local mechanic who had experience with CVTs and had it towed there where it has been for over a month. The input speed sensor was broken on the end that connect to the transmission assembly, the plastic was cracked but not the circuit board itself. Anyways the mechanic replaced the sensor, when the car was put in reverse it went momentarily before giving out again. My understanding is that now there is a code for the output sensor but when tested the sensor is working fine.

The mechanic doesn't really know what else it could be but does not think it is the transmission because it still went into gear momentarily and because of computer testing he has done.

I am at a loss as I cannot afford to just let the car go, replacing the transmission is a possibility, albeit a very expensive one but I don't want to take the route if it isn't necessary.

I really appreciate any help or advice I can get.
Last edited by rannel.bradley on Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
aranciata-oz
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:15 pm
Location: Sydney

rannel.bradley wrote:I have a 2011 Suzuki Kizashi SLS AWD with about 103000 miles. It’s an automatic with a CVT.
The CVT is the JFO11E with is also in the Sentra, Outlander, Lancer, Compass, Caliber, etc.
I haven’t really had any issues with this car so far and I absolutely love this car. It’s always had this sort of wavering of the rpms at constant speed. It would hover going up and down just a little bit which my partner always thought was odd. It was never an issue though and there was never any adverse effects. Never a check engine light or anything else.
About a month ago I was driving to work when the check engine light came on. I thought it was strange but no big deal, and planned to have it looked at by my partner when I got home.
I stopped at a light and as soon as I made the turn the wheels lost all power. The car starts and runs but will not engage in any gear. I press down the gas and it’s revs but nothing happens. The transmission won’t engage.
I had it towed to my house and my partner ran his scan tool and the code comes up P0717 which is a bad speed sensor. The closest dealership is over an hour away and the car is out of warranty, just barely, so having it towed there didn't really seem practical. I found a local mechanic who had experience with CVTs and had it towed there where it has been for over a month. The input speed sensor was broken on the end that connect to the transmission assembly, the plastic was cracked but not the circuit board itself. Anyways the mechanic replaced the sensor, when the car was put in reverse it went momentarily before giving out again. My understanding is that now there is a code for the output sensor but when tested the sensor is working fine.
The mechanic doesn't really know what else it could be but does not think it is the transmission because it still went into gear momentarily and because of computer testing he has done.
I am at a loss as I cannot afford to just let the car go, replacing the transmission is a possibility, albeit a very expensive one but I don't want to take the rout if it isn't necessary.
I really appreciate any help or advice I can get.
Just out of curiosity, what's the service history of the car, and re the transmission has the fluid been changed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2013 MY14 Kizashi Sport Prestige (Auto)
User avatar
rannel.bradley
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 am

aranciata-oz wrote:
rannel.bradley wrote:I have a 2011 Suzuki Kizashi SLS AWD with about 103000 miles. It’s an automatic with a CVT.
The CVT is the JFO11E with is also in the Sentra, Outlander, Lancer, Compass, Caliber, etc.
I haven’t really had any issues with this car so far and I absolutely love this car. It’s always had this sort of wavering of the rpms at constant speed. It would hover going up and down just a little bit which my partner always thought was odd. It was never an issue though and there was never any adverse effects. Never a check engine light or anything else.
About a month ago I was driving to work when the check engine light came on. I thought it was strange but no big deal, and planned to have it looked at by my partner when I got home.
I stopped at a light and as soon as I made the turn the wheels lost all power. The car starts and runs but will not engage in any gear. I press down the gas and it’s revs but nothing happens. The transmission won’t engage.
I had it towed to my house and my partner ran his scan tool and the code comes up P0717 which is a bad speed sensor. The closest dealership is over an hour away and the car is out of warranty, just barely, so having it towed there didn't really seem practical. I found a local mechanic who had experience with CVTs and had it towed there where it has been for over a month. The input speed sensor was broken on the end that connect to the transmission assembly, the plastic was cracked but not the circuit board itself. Anyways the mechanic replaced the sensor, when the car was put in reverse it went momentarily before giving out again. My understanding is that now there is a code for the output sensor but when tested the sensor is working fine.
The mechanic doesn't really know what else it could be but does not think it is the transmission because it still went into gear momentarily and because of computer testing he has done.
I am at a loss as I cannot afford to just let the car go, replacing the transmission is a possibility, albeit a very expensive one but I don't want to take the rout if it isn't necessary.
I really appreciate any help or advice I can get.
Just out of curiosity, what's the service history of the car, and re the transmission has the fluid been changed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not sure. I bought the the car at 90k miles and there is no record of it being changed. I thought that the recommended service was at 100k miles and I was actually looking to have it done when this happened.
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

The recommended service was...there was no recommended service, until, a TSB came out July of last year. Now it's a crap shoot as to when to replace fluid. I'd say you're waaay overdue based upon what just came out of my trans at 80k.

Were any of the under panels damaged by this event? Were the under panels even still on the vehicle when you obtained it? They would have help shield most of the critical components underneath from damage by the unknown object. I agree that your trans, mechanically, is probably OK and the electronic Gremlins are back at it again. Then again, depending, the damage to the sensor could have caused the TCM to command the trans to do something it shouldn't have. That's the beauty of automation....in a perfect world feedback sensors don't get obliterated all of a sudden.

Just for yucks, have you confirmed that ALL of your fuses are good? Busted electrical components can lead to short-circuits. Did the mechanic to a complete under carriage visual inspection to determine that no other components or wiring was damaged? Or, is he simply reacting to what the computer reported fault codes are telling him (which doesn't always tell the entire story)?
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
rannel.bradley
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 am

Ronzuki wrote:The recommended service was...there was no recommended service, until, a TSB came out July of last year. Now it's a crap shoot as to when to replace fluid. I'd say you're waaay overdue based upon what just came out of my trans at 80k.

Were any of the under panels damaged by this event? Were the under panels even still on the vehicle when you obtained it? They would have help shield most of the critical components underneath from damage by the unknown object. I agree that your trans, mechanically, is probably OK and the electronic Gremlins are back at it again. Then again, depending, the damage to the sensor could have caused the TCM to command the trans to do something it shouldn't have. That's the beauty of automation....in a perfect world feedback sensors don't get obliterated all of a sudden.

Just for yucks, have you confirmed that ALL of your fuses are good? Busted electrical components can lead to short-circuits. Did the mechanic to a complete under carriage visual inspection to determine that no other components or wiring was damaged? Or, is he simply reacting to what the computer reported fault codes are telling him (which doesn't always tell the entire story)?
I quickly checked the car out when I got home and there was something hanging but it looked like something plastic from the the under panels. It wasn't obstructing anything or touching the ground though. The bumper was janky and I was kind of able to put it right back in place, no big deal. The panels are all there as far as I know.

If it is an electrical issue I wish I knew how to narrow it down or the mechanic was able to figure out where it would be coming from. Could it be a bad TSM? I also thought maybe some of the plastic from the sensor could have ended up in the transmission maybe but the mechanic said it would be unlikely. It was explained to me that the way the sensor works is there is a magnet that is spinning where that sensor connects and some how the sensor ended up being hit by that spinning and broke.
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Yeah, I'm confused on what the mechanic said was broken. I'm looking at the Parts Catalog I just acquired and the "speed sensor" on the trans (part 26141-54LS0 sensor, revolution) is located half way up the front side of the transmission above and to the right of where the dipstick tube enters the CVT's casting. If something managed to break that sensor tucked in way up there, I think you'd have other problems. There's a large multi-pin connector somewhere on the trans tying it to the TCM...has that and its wiring been inspected for damage?
CVT Elec Conn pic.pdf
(68.27 KiB) Downloaded 369 times
Speed sensor location see 3-pin sensor's connector in the pdf's pic below above the pressure port bolts.
CVT front case pic.pdf
(159.87 KiB) Downloaded 379 times
P0717 "Input Speed Sensor 1 Circuit No Signal", which does not necessarily mean a bad sensor. It means it can't be read. Could be broken wires somewhere.
P0716 " Input Speed Sensor 1 Circuit Performance" means the sensor can be read, could be bad sensor, or, intermittent wiring problem. Wires can be damaged internally w/ little to no visible indications of damage.

You say you hit something and then the problems started afterwards, I'd be looking hard for damaged wires.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
rannel.bradley
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:15 am

Ronzuki wrote:Yeah, I'm confused on what the mechanic said was broken. I'm looking at the Parts Catalog I just acquired and the "speed sensor" on the trans (part 26141-54LS0 sensor, revolution) is located half way up the front side of the transmission above and to the right of where the dipstick tube enters the CVT's casting. If something managed to break that sensor tucked in way up there, I think you'd have other problems. There's a large multi-pin connector somewhere on the trans tying it to the TCM...has that and its wiring been inspected for damage? CVT Elec Conn pic.pdf

Speed sensor location see 3-pin sensor's connector in the pdf's pic below above the pressure port bolts.
CVT front case pic.pdf

P0717 "Input Speed Sensor 1 Circuit No Signal", which does not necessarily mean a bad sensor. It means it can't be read. Could be broken wires somewhere.
P0716 " Input Speed Sensor 1 Circuit Performance" means the sensor can be read, could be bad sensor, or, intermittent wiring problem. Wires can be damaged internally w/ little to no visible indications of damage.

You say you hit something and then the problems started afterwards, I'd be looking hard for damaged wires.
I don't know that hitting something caused the damage, it just seems very coincidental and thus relevant. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have broken the sensor via direct contact but I figure the jolt impact could have dislodged or jostled something. The sensor is most definitely broken, the mechanic gave it to me to explain the issue. His guess at the moment is that there is a washer /spacer that is missing from the output sensor and without that it isn't in the proper position and not sending the proper signal or signal at all.

He says he has tested the harness and there aren't any irregularities. He is sure it isn't the transmission itself because the car went in to gear twice, 1st and reverse, and moved in its own accord before giving out again. His next guess would be the TCM.
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

What diag did this guy do using what procedure(s) to determine it's the TCM that may be the problem?

Still calling BS on the busted sensor. If the debris didn't wreck it, than somebody did. Did this mechanic destroy it trying to play darts to solve your issue? Oh that never happens....

Also be aware that in the early days of Kizashi, several members here had their CVTs exhibit similar fluctuating rpm behavior to the point their cars wouldn't move. Sort of as you indicate you were experiencing prior to failure. Back then Suzuki would replace the CVT and the TCM as a pair. Presumably because the newer CVT assemblies and TCMs were out (so the TCM had to match CVT assembly) late 2011/early 2012. Or maybe they didn't have a clue either and did both to avoid confusion or rework.

What year is your car again?

Also there's a TSB out for I believe 2012 MY TCMs. It's floating around on this site somewhere. Something about a cracked resistor causing over-heat issues IIRC. A call to ASMC (or an ex-dealer, maybe) w/ your VIN would inform you if you car is/was potentially affected by that. Reminds me that there was also a TSB for re-flashing TCMs on some 2012 MY cars. My 2010 was not affected per my VIN when I checked way back when.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
Post Reply