Kizashi shared platform

Ask technical questions or post on problems/issues related to the Kizashi under this topic. Symptoms and pictures of your problem are a good idea.
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KuroNekko
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Good points, but using the GM Epsilon platform with the GM engine and transmission would have pretty much gave Suzuki a different vehicle than they were intending and would have continued the trend of basically rebadging. The little bits of the Japanese videos I've seen state the engineers from Suzuki were intent on designing the Kizashi to be all their own. Hence, it's rather conflicting and we know that many things claimed in concept models don't really happen in production cars, especially with powertrains. I think what makes most sense is that conceptually, like when we saw the Kizashi CUV and wagon, they were considering using a lot of GM components. However, by the time Suzuki actually decided to develop the Kizashi sedan, which was based on the last of the Kizashi concepts, they determined they were building it inhouse. I really don't think the actual production vehicle R&D started with the Epsilon chassis as Motor Trend suggests. I think Suzuki knew upon intending to build the sedan for production that they were doing it themselves. One day, I will get the answers by going to the Suzuki museum myself in Japan and asking curators there. I'm also sure there is a lot more documentation in Japanese about the Kizashi, especially since it was a vehicle that was also sold there.

As for the second gen XL7 that continued on in production, I think it was largely due to a special contract. That vehicle was more GM than Suzuki due to its GM Theta platform in addition to the GM engine and transmission. It was essentially a 3rd row Chevy Equinox and even assembled in Canada at the same plant. It was the only "Suzuki" made outside Japan for the USDM by that time.

Lastly, regarding Suzuki's use of the JATCO CVT: This was actually a very easy matter for them because Suzuki owns a minority stake of JATCO. The reason why Nissan, Suzuki, and Mitsubishi use JATCO CVTs is because these three companies are the owners of JATCO.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
KlutzNinja
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Agreed that the GM parts sourcing probably didn’t make it past conceptual stages, which in some ways is very early development. I don’t think the GM bits made it very far, and it was around the time things were looking sour for the Suzuki-GM relationship, after all.

I think a Kizashi with GM parts/platform/powertrains might have been similar to the Malibu like how the Genesis G70 compares with the Kia Stinger, as opposed to the Mazda Miata and Fiat 124 or, better yet, current Suzukis rebadged as Toyotas (and vice-versa). In other words, not a low-effort rebadge where you can count on one hand the details that separate the two, which the American brands abused to no end in the 2000s. The G70 and Stinger use the same platform and originally used the same powertrains, but they don’t really share a resemblance and they’re sized rather differently. Some people say they’re virtually the same cars, but that ignores how they’re also tuned differently. Pretty sure they are cross-shopped due to some amount of price-overlapping, too. There are probably more examples. I’m sure a partially GM-sourced Kizashi would have been more Suzuki than the new Supra is Toyota, if that makes sense.

I certainly don’t blame Suzuki for not using GM parts; this was right before the recession, and American car quality had been nosediving for a while. Ultimately I’m glad Suzuki did as much in-house as possible, because if the Kizashi was made with GM bits from the mid-2000s, they would probably fall apart a lot earlier.

It’s a shame that Suzuki got with GM in the first place. The latter’s reputation for partnerships isn’t exactly good. RIP Holden. Saab was gone too soon. And Suzuki might still be in the US if they partnered with Toyota earlier. Plus, Suzuki’s reputation here for cars wouldn’t be so poor if they didn’t have to sell rebadged Daewoos for a while. It’s a little awkward telling people that I own a Suzuki, because they likely have no idea what the Kizashi is, and probably assume I have some rebadged heap on its last legs.
Would have been funny if Suzuki got with Ford, but at least all of the partner brands are still alive. Volvo is thriving under Geeley, Mazda is doing well enough to have upmarket aspirations, and JLR is… still existing. Fun fact: my Focus had a Mazda 2.0L, and let’s just say that Mazda’s engines have vastly improved since then. No reliability issues, just very pokey.

I generally trust MT and C&D and the like, but I can admit they’re not 100% reliable all the time. In a case like this and with a brand like Suzuki, I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t told everything, or they may have left something out by mistake.

Had no idea there is a Suzuki museum, but that’s really neat. Without looking into it (which I will soon after), I’d imagine it’s mostly motorcycles and kei cars? :lol:

I remember reading about the JATCO ownership somewhere, and that makes sense. I’ve noticed that not all of their modern vehicles have CVTs, though. Also heard (speculation?) that the JATCO was used for fuel economy, which a relatively heavy little car with an old school engine like the Kizashi needed. But I think Suzuki shot themselves in the foot putting a CVT in a car that was supposed to be “premium” and marketed against the TSX and A4 in addition to the mainstream midsizers. I wouldn’t be surprised if Suzuki didn’t want to buy rights to use an Aisin automatic, though, because the Kizashi was already proving to be super expensive for them. Like I’m just wondering if the JATCO was their first choice after the concept cars were made with 6-speed autos.
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KuroNekko
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I think Suzuki chose the CVT from JATCO for a few reasons including that it was the easiest transmission to source that paired suitably with the J24B engine they were stuck with for production. Also, as you stated, they spent a lot on R&D for the chassis and the rest so the powertrain was something they were going to outsource or use what they already had. They ended up with no other option than the latter so they tuned the J24B from the Grand Vitara for the Kizashi and got a CVT from JATCO that was used in comparable vehicles. JATCO actually does make conventional automatics, like the one found in the Nissan 370Z, but I'm sure Suzuki figured a CVT for the 2.4 liter was appropriate given the Kizashi wasn't going to get a higher performance engine. Also, given the J24B was a rather old-school engine that wasn't going to get them class-leading efficiency, I think the CVT was the way they were going to get better fuel efficiency.

For a long time, I despised CVTs and their track record in the Kizashi didn't help with my opinion. I also test drove a 2010 or so Mitsubishi Outlander Sport with a JATCO CVT many years ago that really had that rubber band feel. But now, I acknowledge that much of the reason for CVT premature failure in the Kizashi was ill-advised service schedules and CVTs have improved considerably since, even from JATCO. I experienced this myself recently when I vacationed in Maui and rented a 2019 Nissan Rogue Sport FWD for a week. While I didn't have high expectations for the CVT or the rest of the car, it actually surprised me with how decent it all was. The transmission was smooth and totally adequate if you weren't mashing on the gas. It also seemed to really keep the engine in an optimal powerband and this was exemplified when I drove up Haleakala, a 10,000ft volcano that you can basically drive all the way up to the summit. I drove the Rogue Sport from literally sea level to 10,000ft with four adults in it and it didn't once feel sluggish or overwhelmed on the twisty inclines. Mind you, that car has a naturally-aspirated 2.0 liter rated at 141 HP. While I'm not a fast driver in most conditions, I thought the Rogue Sport would be really awful on the mountain but it wasn't. It was actually better than any conventional automatic in a vehicle of comparable specs I've driven before (and I used to live on a mountain). I ended up driving the Rogue Sport about 24 hours total and about 550 miles during the trip, according to the vehicle's dash metrics that I reset shortly after getting it. It made sense given we drove around most of the island during the trip and you don't drive very fast there. It returned an average of 28 MPG. I came away from the experience of driving a newer CVT-equipped vehicle that perhaps these transmissions are really better now. I just hope they hold up better down the line too to at least match the longevity of conventional automatics.

Yeah, Suzuki has a museum in their hometown of Hamamatsu in Japan. It's actually free but requires a reservation from what I've read online. Below is a video to give you a brief idea what it's like. It's mostly kei cars, subcompacts, and motorcycles as that's what Suzuki mostly makes but I would expect to see a Kizashi somewhere in there unless it's too painful of a memory for them. :lol:


2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
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AirRideFan
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KuroNekko wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:18 pm I think Suzuki chose the CVT from JATCO for a few reasons including that it was the easiest transmission to source that paired suitably with the J24B engine they were stuck with for production. Also, as you stated, they spent a lot on R&D for the chassis and the rest so the powertrain was something they were going to outsource or use what they already had. They ended up with no other option than the latter so they tuned the J24B from the Grand Vitara for the Kizashi and got a CVT from JATCO that was used in comparable vehicles. JATCO actually does make conventional automatics, like the one found in the Nissan 370Z, but I'm sure Suzuki figured a CVT for the 2.4 liter was appropriate given the Kizashi wasn't going to get a higher performance engine. Also, given the J24B was a rather old-school engine that wasn't going to get them class-leading efficiency, I think the CVT was the way they were going to get better fuel efficiency.

For a long time, I despised CVTs and their track record in the Kizashi didn't help with my opinion. I also test drove a 2010 or so Mitsubishi Outlander Sport with a JATCO CVT many years ago that really had that rubber band feel. But now, I acknowledge that much of the reason for CVT premature failure in the Kizashi was ill-advised service schedules and CVTs have improved considerably since, even from JATCO. I experienced this myself recently when I vacationed in Maui and rented a 2019 Nissan Rogue Sport FWD for a week. While I didn't have high expectations for the CVT or the rest of the car, it actually surprised me with how decent it all was. The transmission was smooth and totally adequate if you weren't mashing on the gas. It also seemed to really keep the engine in an optimal powerband and this was exemplified when I drove up Haleakala, a 10,000ft volcano that you can basically drive all the way up to the summit. I drove the Rogue Sport from literally sea level to 10,000ft with four adults in it and it didn't once feel sluggish or overwhelmed on the twisty inclines. Mind you, that car has a naturally-aspirated 2.0 liter rated at 141 HP. While I'm not a fast driver in most conditions, I thought the Rogue Sport would be really awful on the mountain but it wasn't. It was actually better than any conventional automatic in a vehicle of comparable specs I've driven before (and I used to live on a mountain). I ended up driving the Rogue Sport about 24 hours total and about 550 miles during the trip, according to the vehicle's dash metrics that I reset shortly after getting it. It made sense given we drove around most of the island during the trip and you don't drive very fast there. It returned an average of 28 MPG. I came away from the experience of driving a newer CVT-equipped vehicle that perhaps these transmissions are really better now. I just hope they hold up better down the line too to at least match the longevity of conventional automatics.

Yeah, Suzuki has a museum in their hometown of Hamamatsu in Japan. It's actually free but requires a reservation from what I've read online. Below is a video to give you a brief idea what it's like. It's mostly kei cars, subcompacts, and motorcycles as that's what Suzuki mostly makes but I would expect to see a Kizashi somewhere in there unless it's too painful of a memory for them. :lol:


Nice write up, Kuro. And Yep. At 15:50 in this video -- there's that Kiz!..in Vivid Red too, they same color they used for their press car. 🙂
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I didnt see any Suzuki wetbikes. These, the RE5 rotary , the Kizashi were all brave ventures. If the museum needed one, they could have mine. Its been in my basement for the last 25 yrs.
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