Kizashi Club

So I found out just how bad the stock Dunlops on my Kizashi are in the snow/ice. There was quite a bit of freezing rain where I live last Saturday, and I was a naive little noob gallivanting around in my 2011 SE AWD. I managed to crash my Kizashi not once, but twice, in less than 12 hours.

The first incident occurred as I was coming off of the interstate. The exit leads up to an overpass and I wanted to turn left. Much to my delight, the left turn traffic signal at the top of the ramp turned green and was going to stay on for me. To ensure that I caught the light I wanted to maintain a healthy amount of momentum, and started braking to around 30-ish mph. I have taken this very same turn before at around 35-ish in my Kizashi before, so I was feeling very confident. But, previously I'd made the turn in completely dry conditions on days when the temperature was much warmer than the 27 degrees Fahrenheit (like -3-ish degrees Celsius for my non-US compatriots) it was that day. Sure enough, when I went to tap the brakes as I was entering the corner, all four tires lost traction at the same time. I tapped the brakes a couple more times like a noob, but got no response at all. As I careened towards an angled median at the top of the ramp, I was so shocked by lack of responsiveness from the brakes, that I couldn't snap out of it and come up with a better way to combat the excessive amount of understeer I was facing. All I could do was keep the wheel pitched to the left as I slid at about a -10 degree angle towards the median.

For a split second I was afraid I was going to hit the median at such an oblique angle and with such inertia, that I would be launched airborne and flip over my Kizashi. I was bleeding speed as I skidded across the lane, but unfortunately it was not enough to save my Kizashi from harm. I watched helplessly as I drifted dangerously close to the median until finally I heard the horrible scraping sound as the front right portion of the car made contact with the curb at the base of the median. The shock of the impact jolted the car and jerked my consciousness. The dashboard lights up in hazardous yellow light announcing to me that the ESP System requires service.

After the jarring impact absorbed most of my momentum, I started to roll rather gently into the intersection atop the overpass. I try to compose myself and limp my poor Kizashi around the corner to the nearest parking for, ironically enough, an auto body repair shop. As I pull into the lot, pull up the parking break, and shift the transmission into park, the dashboard announces the Hill Hold has been disabled. It pains me so much to see the blinding yellow message that I key the ignition and turn off the car.

I dismount my driver’s seat to inspect the damage. Harrowing images of loose bumpers, bent axels, positive camber and dangling headlight assemblies cloud my imagination. I round the front of my vehicle to find that my worst nightmares are not my reality. The bumper and body panel around the wheel well appear to be miraculously untouched after the harrowing incident. The finish on my front-passenger side 19 inch stock rim was not so fortunate. There is a massive scrape around the edge of the rim covering about 25% of the circumference of the wheel.

Moving in disbelief at what I had just done to my poor Kizashi, I reenter my car, and key the ignition. The car hums to life as eagerly as it always does, sans warning messages about the hill hold this, or ESP that. Lack of error messages does not assuage my myriad of concerns though. I carefully back out of the parking lot, and gingerly guide my Kizashi back to my home about a mile away.

There is still more to the story of course, and I’d be more than happy to share more if anyone wants to hear. But this is the most troubling part of it to me, and I wanted to chronicle it here as a foreboding warning to other loyal Kizashi lovers out there. Unless you are properly trained and equipped, it would be in your best interest to take heed when the dashboard on your Kizashi informs you “ICE POSSIBLE DRIVE WITH CARE”. It’s telling you this not just for its own self-preservation, but yours as well.

This has been my worst nightmare every time I get out without the proper snow tires I want on the car. We also have a 2011, but it's an Sport SLS (which only comes with 18s, so I'm not sure how you got 19s on your SE).

I see that warning each time I start it up and remind myself that patience and not going over 20mph as well as staying away from every other car on the road will keep us safe.

I've cornered like that on my cars before, and what I've learned about the snow is have zero forces--lateral, front or back--if you don't want to lose traction. That and never drive faster than you can brake without locking/absing.

Sounds like you actually came out quite lucky, except that you shouldn't have a hill hold warning or other such warning without some sort of suspension/wheel sensor damage. I'm sure you're already home after the second incident (which I'm waiting to hear about), and hopefully you've had a chance to pull off the wheel and check for any more damage.

What device on our car determine ice in the road, i did get this warning once in the summer time.

krell wrote:What device on our car determine ice in the road, i did get this warning once in the summer time.

I think it just shows this warning based on temperature. So you could even get it on a cold summer morning.

My ice warning appears to come on around 35 F and below.

Also, you just need to keep in mind that in inclement weather, even rain, you need to adjust your driving style. You cannot treat the road as if it were dry on a summer day.
Even the best AWD systems and tires can only help so far before the laws of physics take over.
I've been through the worst: snow-covered icy roads while it's snowing hard on a hill in thick fog alongside a mountain cliff at night. No joke. That's mountain life for you. However, you crawl in something like that. Even 15 mph is too fast.

While AWD systems help a lot, they do nothing about slowing down and that's when you slip the most. Tires are the most important equation (yes, I've noticed the OEM tires are not great even in wet surfaces) but slowing down in general is what you have to do.
Don't let technology get you overconfident. Physics and nature will bitch slap you back to reality.

My VW and BMW warning would go on at 37 F - which I believe is the temp at which ice could form on bridge or overpass surfaces. Agreed the best tires won't help once you are sliding on ice.

Not sure how many miles you have on the Dunlops, but in my experience, they were OK the first two winters but beyond around 18k miles became noticeably less secure in rain/snow.

Firefly wrote:Not sure how many miles you have on the Dunlops, but in my experience, they were OK the first two winters but beyond around 18k miles became noticeably less secure in rain/snow.

With over 27k on ours, we definitely concur.

And crawling is what I'm doing on them until I get the snow tires mounted. I'll probably still use some of the same tests I do with the current tires like checking the braking traction in our driveway before heading out onto the road. The awd will get you moving much, much faster than the brakes can stop you.

It would be nice if there was some sort of thing that dropped down from the chassis when you wanted to stop on snow and ice when the abs was kicking in.

Firefly wrote: Not sure how many miles you have on the Dunlops, but in my experience, they were OK the first two winters but beyond around 18k miles became noticeably less secure in rain/snow.

Agreed. The tires are not as good as they used to be on wet roads back when I bought the car with 7500 miles. Now, with 21,000 miles, the ESP comes on more than it should because of the tires losing traction. There is still a good amount of tread left, but I will not be getting these Dunlops again given it's clear there are better tires out there for this car.

What tire you recommend to replace them dunlops

krell wrote:What tire you recommend to replace them dunlops

That totally depends on where you live and what kind of driving you want to do.
Most people settle with All Season tires but those are the compromise tires. They are generally inferior to Summer tires in traction on dry surfaces and they are inferior to Winter tires in snow and ice. However, they are the most economical and will get you by if you live somewhere that does not snow too much. These have the "M+S" rating for Mud and Snow.

Personally, I may venture into getting Summer tires that are "Max Performance".
Tires have performance categories called "Passenger", "Standard Touring", "Grand Touring", "High Performance", "Ultra High Performance", "Max Performance", and "Extreme Performance".
They are in that respective order in terms of performance ratings from low to high. Keep in mind that "Extreme Performance" tires are the kind you'd use on an autocross track and never in snow.
Here's tirerack.com's breakdown on it: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp

Given I remain in an area that does not get too much snow, then something like a Max Summer tire may be suitable. Some people are unwilling to compromise so they get two sets of tires. One for the summer and another for the winter to maximize their traction in all seasons.