After Kizashi - What New Vehicle?

Anything related to the Kizashi can go here, but please look at the other headings first. Your topic may fit better under something else.
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Drem
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:03 am

Didn't read the thread but if I had to buy today I'd buy a Volvo S60. I don't expect to need a car for 10 more years so I'm not planning anything until then.

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2011 - Sport SLS AWD - Platinum Silver
KlutzNinja
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:58 am

@ Drem:
I love the S60, both current gen and last gen. Would have seriously considered a used last gen model as my Kizashi successor if it weren’t for the fact that their reliability isn’t stellar, and their engines require premium fuel.
The last gen model is about the size of the Kizashi, and because it’s a Volvo, it’s solid and safe, and has great seats. Same can be said about the current gen, except it’s considerably larger than the Kizashi, at least on the outside.

@ NickL:
The Mazda 2.5L turbo petrol engine is pretty reliable, as far as turbo engines go, I think. More so than Honda’s 1.5L and its oil problems, anyway. A lot of people don’t like the naturally aspirated 2.5L in the Mazda6, though. I’d imagine in a car like the Mazda6 Touring, that’s likely heavier than the sedan and can take on more cargo (i.e. weight), the engine would feel even more underpowered. Can’t speak for the diesel lol.

The Challenger is a cool car, don’t get me wrong, it’s just that it has several compromises and major differences when coming from a sedan like the Kizashi. The other cars you have mentioned are less of a transition away from the Kizashi, and will feel more similar. I think you should at least test drive everything you’re interested in, if possible.

Also, regarding the Fusion again, I hate the dial transmission shifter lol. I only ever used it a few times, but I always got the turn direction wrong. I think I’d rather use the push button shifter in its Lincoln cousin.
Current: Blue 2018 Mazda 3 GT 5-Door
Previous: Blue 2010 Ford Focus SES,
Black 2013 Kizashi Sport GTS-L (CVT; FWD)(RIP)
NickL
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:46 pm

2.5L naturally aspirated Petrol engine in Mazda 6 is good as it gets. People who don't like this kind of engine are mostly the people who got used to drive turbo diesel or turbo petrol engines, where the most of the maximum torque is ready as soon as you step on a gas pedal, arround 2000rpm. And these kind of car have always same throttle response, regardles of on which rpm are they driven. Even though they have less power on higher rpm.

On a naturally aspirated petrol engine, the story goes other way arround. When beeing driven between 1500 and 3500 the car is so smooth, quiet, refined, and you don't hear the engine at all. Perfect for a family cruiser where you sit all day long in a car listening yout favorite music. On the other hand, when you downshift 2 gears and the engine all the sudden goes on 4000 rpm, that is where the sheep show its wolf skin. The car completely turns in other directions and show its sport nature. It becomes loud, zippy, and puts instant smiles on your face when you feel how the power is pulling you forward. This kind of feeling, the two different personalities that you have in one same car is the thing why I like the NA petrol Engine. Plus its simplicity and reliability.


I remember one time I gave my Kizzy to a friend of mine, to give it a try and he drove mostly diesels before. He liked the handling and looks but was bit dissapointed with the performance. He asked me where the hell are these 180hp. And then i drove the car and downhifted it two gears at the time, kept the engine between 4 and 6500 rpm all the time and he was then amazed.

People who don't like the NA engines are most of the time the people who don't know how to drive them, especially with MT.
"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing". H. Ford
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KuroNekko
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Location: California, USA

While I think Mazda makes great NA engines, their new turbo engines are certainly overshadowing the NAs. At first, I was apprehensive about the SkyActiv Turbo because Mazda's past turbos were unreliable in the MZR engines of the mid 2000s. In fact, the CX-7 of that generation was one of the worst used cars to buy because of engine issues with the turbo model. Mazdaspeed models also didn't seem to have great longevity either and I don't see many of them on the road anymore. It appears that Mazda took their time and carefully worked out issues before releasing the new SkyActiv Turbos. These are well regarded in reliability and has helped the CX-9 with top reliability scores despite being the only engine in that model. Furthermore, Mazda developed the engine to run on either Regular or Premium, the latter producing more power and torque. It's proved over the years as an engine that allows flexibility yet is among the most reliable engines. I consider that an engineering feat, especially compared to the competition. Mazda has since put that engine in other smaller vehicles to make exciting versions of the Mazda3, Mazda6, Mazda CX-30, CX-5, and CX-50. Publications all hail the turbo engine as the one that sets the Mazdas apart from their direct competition and elevates the vehicle to the potential of their superior chassis. While a the turbo engine might not be for everyone, it seems Mazda did very well with it after years of only offering NA 4 bangers on their models like the Mazda6. I think the only setback is that these SkyActiv Turbos are only offered with automatic transmissions. That being said, Mazda expanded available AWD on more models, making it standard on the newer CUVs.
Personally, I'm waiting for their hybrids and PHEVs to come out which should be next year. It sounds like the CX-50 Hybrid will use the hybrid system from the Toyota RAV4 but the upcoming CX-70 and CX-90 is said to use an all-new inline 6 on a RWD-based platform as AWD PHEVs.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
KlutzNinja
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:58 am

It should also be mentioned that the Mazda turbo feels like a diesel in its torque delivery; lots of early torque low in the rev range. It’s not a ballistic missile like how other turbos in the class try to aim for, or the Mazdaspeeds of yore. This results in the turbo Mazdas feeling calmer and more sophisticated in their acceleration, rather than the adrenaline-fueled sensation the competition seeks (while still providing more than adequate power).
So if you like/want diesel power delivery, the Mazda turbo is the best way to go, as far as petrol engines at this price point are concerned.

The actual SkyActiv-D (diesel) that made it to the States was somewhat unremarkable. It was only ever sold in one vehicle, for maybe a year or two before it was discontinued. It netted fairly disappointing fuel economy for a diesel, which was the whole point in choosing diesel in the first place. The high price didn’t help, either. I would hope the European versions, which probably had different tunings than ours (due to emissions regulations differences), are better engines.

I feel like my car’s NA 2.5L seems pretty torque-y in its own right - it makes similar horsepower to the Kizashi, but about 15 lb-feet more torque, plus it has a better automatic, and is several hundred pounds lighter… So it only makes sense that it feels faster. But there is a feeling of low-end torque delivery I didn’t expect. It’s almost how I imagine an EV to be, at least at lower speeds, with relatively weak motors lol. I really like it. I doubt this same feeling is present in the larger, heavier cars like the Mazda6, unfortunately.
Current: Blue 2018 Mazda 3 GT 5-Door
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NickL
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:46 pm

I do not doubt that Mazdas Turbo Petrol engine seems and holds up good, but these engines are relatively new while beeing present on the market just a couple of years. We can talk about some product quality only when it has been on the market a long time and has proven it's reliabiliry throught mant years and customers. So when Mazdas Turbo Petrol engine hit 2 or 300 000 miles mark, then we can talk about how good or bad they are.

However, I must admit that Turbo engines are fun to drive, with a lot of power but then again with excelent miileage when beeing driven normally. From the other side, two engines with same hp in same car, one naturally aspirated and other turbo will never be eqaully reliable and durable, because the Turbo engine has a much higher pressue in the cylinders which causes to things to wear out at a much faster rate. And most of the time, the smaller the turbo engine are with a lot of hp, the faster the things wear out. So if it has to be turbo, then is better at least 2 Liters engine or bigger.

Neverheless, here in Europe we are not offered Mazdas turbo Petrol engines. Why, I have no idea, but it is sad. Mazda Diesels are pretty good even though they consumpt maybe 15% less fuel than petrol. Than beeing sad, diesels don't have bad mileage, it's just that the Petrol engines from Mazda when beeing normaly driven, can be really economical.

That"s why I don't se the point any more of buying a diesel in Europe over the Petrol, when mileage is almost the same, Gas is a bit cheaper than Diesel here, and the NA petrol engines are much more simple than diesels plus they are quiter and smoother.

I really don't have any kind of interest of buying a Hybrid or elektro Car any time soon and will try to drive a traditional Petrol or Diesel engine as far as it goes....
"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing". H. Ford
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KuroNekko
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KlutzNinja wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:10 am It should also be mentioned that the Mazda turbo feels like a diesel in its torque delivery; lots of early torque low in the rev range. It’s not a ballistic missile like how other turbos in the class try to aim for, or the Mazdaspeeds of yore. This results in the turbo Mazdas feeling calmer and more sophisticated in their acceleration, rather than the adrenaline-fueled sensation the competition seeks (while still providing more than adequate power).
So if you like/want diesel power delivery, the Mazda turbo is the best way to go, as far as petrol engines at this price point are concerned.

The actual SkyActiv-D (diesel) that made it to the States was somewhat unremarkable. It was only ever sold in one vehicle, for maybe a year or two before it was discontinued. It netted fairly disappointing fuel economy for a diesel, which was the whole point in choosing diesel in the first place. The high price didn’t help, either. I would hope the European versions, which probably had different tunings than ours (due to emissions regulations differences), are better engines.

I feel like my car’s NA 2.5L seems pretty torque-y in its own right - it makes similar horsepower to the Kizashi, but about 15 lb-feet more torque, plus it has a better automatic, and is several hundred pounds lighter… So it only makes sense that it feels faster. But there is a feeling of low-end torque delivery I didn’t expect. It’s almost how I imagine an EV to be, at least at lower speeds, with relatively weak motors lol. I really like it. I doubt this same feeling is present in the larger, heavier cars like the Mazda6, unfortunately.
I personally think that the torque response you feel between your current Mazda3 and your former Kizashi is less likely the engine and more likely the difference between the transmissions. The Mazda has a conventional automatic with gears while the automatic Kizashi used a CVT. I also agree that the lighter weight of the vehicles have an effect. Recalling back to my own Mazda3 compared to my Kizashi, they were both manual transmission models with normally-aspirated multi-port injection engines in 2.3 liter and 2.4 liter displacements, respectively. The Mazda3 definitely felt lighter and more responsive, but mostly due to the lighter weight of the vehicle. This was nice for spirited drives but was detrimental in cruising and long drives for comfort. The Kizashi's extra weight definitely aided to its refinement and more insulated characteristics that made it a significantly more comfortable cruiser for me. In 2017, I drove both a 2007 Mazda3 2.3 Automatic (not mine) and my Kizashi cross-country within a month of each other. The Kizashi was significantly more comfortable and less fatiguing for the drive because it's a better highway cruiser due to the weight and insulation. Perhaps the newer Mazda3 are better in this regard but it appears this refinement comes at the cost of weight. Mazda is poised to be more upscale now so instead of lightweight torque-steery Mazdaspeeds, they are making more modest turbos that are significantly more refined. I expect that these cars are heavier but more refined than their predecessors if they are trying to be more like Acura and Buick.

I agree that the SkyActiv-D in the US was a disappointment, which Mazda shouldn't have bothered with much like the Chevy Equinox diesel. Both were rather unexpected and unwanted versions of their popular vehicles while rivals offered hybrids that made a lot more sense (and sold better too). Diesels in CUVs aren't useless, but cater to a small group of consumers to really make them worthwhile. Long distance cruising efficiency/range and towing capabilities are where diesels stand out. They are also great for those planning to keep the car in extreme mileage as diesel engines tend to be overbuilt to handle compression ignition. That being said, it's hard to justify the higher cost over a gasoline model and hybrids seem to be the better investment for most people in varied driving conditions.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
KlutzNinja
Posts: 286
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:58 am

The 6-speed auto definitely plays a large factor, yes. I think the engine making peak torque 750 revs earlier than the Kizashi's helps, too. Not that I usually rev that hard, lol.

The problem with Mazda is they grew up from the Mazdaspeed days, producing the modest, refined turbos... but a lot of the people who want turbo Mazdas haven't grown up. So the company is offering products that don't fully align with what the hardcore fans want.
Recent Mazdas are known for having really well-sorted rides - a good balance between comfort and "sporty." I'd say that's pretty true in my car. It rides similarly to the Kizashi, but road impacts are a little less harsh. That may be due to a fresher suspension and different tires, however. It's not boat-cushy, but also not bumpy.
The seats also feel nice, pretty comparable to the Kizashi's in terms of comfort. But there's no power lumbar, and the passenger seat is manual... Which is fine for me as I never have passengers, anyway. The power lumbar was something I could never make the most of in the Kizashi. My back doesn't miss it, to be honest.

Another bragging point for current Mazdas is that they're among the safest cars, in terms of crash tests. The IIHS' updated side-impact test is catching automakers off-guard, including Subaru, whose Crosstrek/Impreza just failed the test. The 4th-gen Mazda3's test wasn't filmed, but it was the only compact car tested to get the top 'Good' rating, according to the IIHS site. I don't think my 3rd-gen Mazda3 would fare as well, but it gives me faith in the brand, and further makes me want to remain with it.

The SkyActiv-D situation was even worse because it was announced years and years earlier, and it kept getting delayed... only for the final product to be thoroughly underwhelming. I hope I can see a diesel CX-5 one day, they must be at least as rare as Kizashis lol.
Current: Blue 2018 Mazda 3 GT 5-Door
Previous: Blue 2010 Ford Focus SES,
Black 2013 Kizashi Sport GTS-L (CVT; FWD)(RIP)
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n8dogg
Posts: 215
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I play this game a lot...If my Kizashi were to die today, what would I get? I lean more toward practicality, but if I can have some fun that's a plus! I usually just commute, but my wife and I enjoy long road trips as well. So if there is one thing I might look forward to in our next car, it would be quieter cabin and maybe slightly larger. The AWD and handling of my Kizashi are some of my favorite features while I'm commuting so I'd definitely hate to lose those for the sake of comfort...oh the dilemma! And while bigger price tags cars may easily fit this bill, my practical side thinks I'd have to go to the used market if I want a car with any bells or whistles!
Recently I stumbled into this: 2020 Buick Regal GS. AWD and 301 hp Naturally Aspirated V6. MPG is reportedly on par with what I get with my Kizashi ( I'm getting 21 calculated at the pump). Plus it's kind of rare and quirky (i don't usually think Brembo brakes when I think of Buick!) Not everyone has one, Kind of like the Kizashi! So I haven't actually seen a Regal in GS trim in person, but it's on my radar!
Second might be a Toyota Camry in TRD or XSE trim with V6. Reliability for sure! AWD can only be had on 4 banger, BOOO! Not as unique and cost more. We all pretty much know what you get with a Toyota, so I'd like to explore the Buick a little more. What do you guys think?
'12 Kizashi SLS AWD w/RF sound
easy to chip Vivid Red and 25% window tint
Pirelli Cinturato P7 Plus II
Power Stop Rotors and Pads
183,xxx miles and still lovin it!
NickL
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:46 pm

Mazdas Diesel engines are one of the most reliable on the European market today. When Mazda introduced thrid generation of 6, 2.2 diesel engine was already offered (in Europe) and many car reviewers rated it as onr of the best 4 Cylinder Diesel engine on the market 10 years ago. However, those preddictions were not justified because at the beginning of production many Mazda diesels had problem wit oil Dillution. Most of the engines Mazda repaired in warranty but it influenced badly on the company image. Since 2015 diesels from Mazda didn't have any more oil problems and since then they remain as on of the most refined, and most reliable 4 Cylinder Common Rail diesel engines on the European market.

If you want to buy a Mazda vehicle in Europe, 70% of used cars have Diesel engines because Gas and diesel prices in Europe are more than double than in the US, and that is why many customers usually choose to buy diese instead of Petrol, because of better mileage and torkier engines. However, with the later technologies involved turbo Petrol engines, the situation is now much better with geas mileage, but the engines durability and lifespam are now influenced because there is no chance that the smaller Petrol engine with turbo can last as much as an bigger NA engine without it. It is clear as day and light.

Conclusion is that Mazda diesel engines from and after 2015 are almost bullet proff, reliable, quet and refined. The only reason why it is not as nearly offered as in Europe is because the Gas in US is much more cheaper than here in Europe tnad that's why most of the American will buy Petrol engine. And Americans are used to drive petrol engine, but nevertheless there are many really good diesel engines on the market, especially from Mazda....
"The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing". H. Ford
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