How to install DRL/High Beam LED Conversion Kit

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~tc~
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KuroNekko wrote:Also, my Morimoto HID kit was around $170 while the VLEDS LED kit was $120. The cheap kits found on Ebay are trash compared to Morimoto components and also don't come with the relay harness. In this regard, getting a good HID kit with a relay harness will cost you more than the VLEDS LED kit.
Read what I said again .... Add the cost of the relay setup to the VLEDs kit, to make it apples to apples and the cost will be very similar.
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SamirD
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KuroNekko wrote:Yes, the Kizashi uses separate H7 bulbs for both the low beam and high beam. However, the LED conversion kit would not be suitable for the low beams. The reason is because of the lens type. The lows use a projector lens and these are not suited for LED bulbs. They don't refract the LED light properly so the output is poor. However, LED bulbs do better in multi-reflector lenses which is what the DRL/High beam bulbs are in. This is why I went with the LED kit among other reasons discussed below.

The opposite is true with HID kits. They work well in projector lenses and not multi-reflector lenses. HID bulbs in multi-reflectors create a lot of glare and do not throw the beam optimally. However, they work better in projector lenses which not only throw the light well, but offer a light cut-off to minimize glare.

HID bulbs are also not suitable for varying wattage so they don't serve well as DRLs which run on lower wattage. They are also not good for intermittent use such as flashing or using in short bursts which is how high beams are commonly used, especially in urban environments. This is due to how HIDs work: they are gas discharge arcs reacting on crystallized salts which turn into plasma when ignited. This process requires "warm up" and turning them on and off repeatedly reduces the life of the salts if they don't get to recrystallize before being arced again.
In contrast, LEDs turn on at full power instantly and are totally fine flashing or even strobing. There are no warm up or cool down issues like HIDs have. LEDs also run better on lower wattage so they can serve as DRLs better than HID.
This makes them ideal as DRLs and high beams over HID.

Basically, use HIDs for lows and LEDs for DRL/high beams or just stick to halogen bulbs for both.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I forgot about the different type of reflectors and lenses on each of the housings. On the Galant and Accord (which also share the same type of bulb for high and low), the housing for each is the same.
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KuroNekko
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~tc~ wrote:
KuroNekko wrote:Also, my Morimoto HID kit was around $170 while the VLEDS LED kit was $120. The cheap kits found on Ebay are trash compared to Morimoto components and also don't come with the relay harness. In this regard, getting a good HID kit with a relay harness will cost you more than the VLEDS LED kit.
Read what I said again .... Add the cost of the relay setup to the VLEDs kit, to make it apples to apples and the cost will be very similar.
~tc~ wrote:While I don't necessarily buy Kuro's "HID for projectors, LED for multi reflector"
I read what you wrote numerous times, but the flaw in your argument is hinted with this line. You are treating HID and LED conversion kits as alternatives to each other when they really aren't. This is why you are then comparing lumens vs. price. It simply isn't "apples to apples" regardless of additional components like relays.

Do your research like I have. LEDs are not very effective in projectors. HIDs are not very good in multi-reflectors and can't throw the light properly. Because of these characteristics, they are not comparable in all applications. A relay is irrelevant in the lumens vs. price ratio because the bulbs work differently. You simply cannot treat one as an alternative to the other regardless of relays. The bulbs have different operating properties that make them better suited for different roles. The housing of a bulb is just as important as the type of bulb. After all, the housing is what casts the bulb's light to the road. In essence, the bulb housing of your headlight design (projector vs. multi-reflector) is just as important as the type of bulb (HID vs. LED). There is an abundance of literature on this.

To demonstrate, the VLEDS kit is rated at 2000 lumens which is higher than just about any H7 halogen. However, in a projector lens, it can't throw the light effectively so a standard halogen bulb would outperform it. In this regard, a $120 LED kit would be outperformed by a pair of halogens costing 1/5 of the price.

Given I have both a H7 HID kit and a H7 LED kit, I can swap the bulbs to demonstrate the degradation in light throw from going HID low to LED low and LED high to HID high. Remember, all that will change is the housing in which these bulbs will go into.
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murcod
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KuroNekko wrote:
Given I have both a H7 HID kit and a H7 LED kit, I can swap the bulbs to demonstrate the degradation in light throw from going HID low to LED low and LED high to HID high. Remember, all that will change is the housing in which these bulbs will go into.
Any chance of comparing all three bulbs in low beam? :)
David
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KuroNekko
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murcod wrote:
KuroNekko wrote:
Given I have both a H7 HID kit and a H7 LED kit, I can swap the bulbs to demonstrate the degradation in light throw from going HID low to LED low and LED high to HID high. Remember, all that will change is the housing in which these bulbs will go into.
Any chance of comparing all three bulbs in low beam? :)
Maybe one day if boredom gets the better of me. It's too cold outside to bother with it anytime soon.
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~tc~
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Lumens are a directional reading, so the angle will have an impact on the reading. 2000 lumens is 2000 lumens regardless of bulb type, housing type, etc.
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KuroNekko
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~tc~ wrote:Lumens are a directional reading, so the angle will have an impact on the reading. 2000 lumens is 2000 lumens regardless of bulb type, housing type, etc.
Your first and second sentences contradict each other, no? In the first, you state the angle will impact the lumens ratings. In the second, you state 2000 is 2000 regardless of housing type or bulb type. Even if the bulb itself makes 2000 lumens, the housing is what determines how much of it gets on the road properly (what actually matters).
The housing is what determines the angle which affects how lumens are measured in an applied sense. If the proper reflector is not being used, the output in lumens will diminish.

It's unclear how the lumens rating for the kit was measured. It could be that VLEDS merely went off the spec sheet for the Cree CXA 1507 LED which is rated around 700 to 1300 lumens per LED according to Cree. The bulb uses two of these LEDs so they may have taken the average of 700 and 1300 (1000) and multiplied it by 2 = 2000 lumens. Who knows.
However, putting those lumens to use on the road depends a lot on the housing. If the housing can't refract the light properly, the output will be diminished.

As I've already stated, even VLEDS warned against putting their kit in projector lenses in my correspondence with them before I purchased the kit:
"The CXA LED headlight does not work that well in projector housings, the stem that the LED is mounted to can get in the way of the light beam pattern."
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~tc~
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No, not contradictory when evaluated, as you put it "how much of it gets on the road". 3000 lumens is 50% brighter than 2000 lumens.

Where I'm coming from is that there's not some difference in LED light vs HID light vs halogen light - it's all in how those are currently "done". For example, there isn't really a need for that stem to get in the way - it's there for cosmetics - but it does with a highly collimated beam like a projector creates. The Morimoto XB35 bulbs have done a great job of applying HID technology to be used in housings designed for halogen, as a positive example.
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KuroNekko
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~tc~ wrote:No, not contradictory when evaluated, as you put it "how much of it gets on the road". 3000 lumens is 50% brighter than 2000 lumens.

Where I'm coming from is that there's not some difference in LED light vs HID light vs halogen light - it's all in how those are currently "done". For example, there isn't really a need for that stem to get in the way - it's there for cosmetics - but it does with a highly collimated beam like a projector creates. The Morimoto XB35 bulbs have done a great job of applying HID technology to be used in housings designed for halogen, as a positive example.
I'm going to have to disagree. "there isn't really a need for that stem to get in the way - it's there for cosmetics -" is wrong. The Cree LEDs used are SMD LEDs. SMD stand for Surface Mounted Device. As the name implies, it needs to mount to a surface as they are one-sided. Look at the photos of the actual LED on the bulb found on the first page. It looks like a flat shirt button. This obviously need to be mounted on something and that's what the stem does. The stem is absolutely necessary in this design as they are in all SMD LEDs.

LEDs aren't suspended in glass tubes like halogens or HIDs therefore require the stems. Halogen bulbs are wire filaments encapsulated in halogen gas so they burn with amplified intensity. HIDs are gas discharges in xenon gas tubes. They are basically wires or gas discharges suspended in glass so they can emit their light 360 degrees. LEDs need to mount on a surface so they have a more directional output.
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~tc~
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There is no reason to believe the area behind the SMD is what they are talking about - more likely the "end cap" which normally has at least some light output.
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