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Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:04 pm
by Hawkzilla
gaww wrote:
Flyby wrote:Senegal that article points to some interesting conclusions. I'll simply say "In God we trust. All others bring data". I'm sure that if you ask of it, K&N will provide testing results that show conclusively that it's filter boosts performance in the Kiz. Should you worry that it also passes more dirt into your engine? To each hos own.
Flyby out


After reading that article, I was concerned enough to cut-and-paste it and sent to KN's support email address. Their response included a link to their own testing site - http://www.knfilters.com/air_filter_testing.htm.

After reading discussions on efficiency on that site, I became even more concerned. Promotional info on KN"s main webpage had stated that they did not have to compromise filtering efficiency to get higher air flows, and that they were 99% or better efficient. The link above takes you to a discussion where they say "generally" between 96 and 99%.

The article Senegal posted showed the KN filter had the lowest efficiency in the group (96.8%) with the highest airflow (looks like a major compromise to me). At that efficiency, it was passing dust through at 45 times the rate of the AC Delco ( which had the highest efficiency and not surprising - most resistance to air flow).

I don't know if 45 times the rate for dust is worth a few extra horsepower with the KN. However, not knowing the "brand" of the Kizashi OEM paper filter, it is hard to know what its filter ratings would be compared the the group in the test. A number of other air filters also passed through a good deal of dust.

I responded to KN with the above, and they stated their 100% customer satisfaction policy provides for a refund if not. I am considering doing this (easy - as I purchased directly from them). Just wished I knew more about the OEM original filter - if it was as inefficient as the KN (doubtful), would stay with it until a Delco becomes available.

If you live in an especially dusty area and are looking for long life from the engine, you might want to consider the AC Delco filter if/when they release one for the Kizashi.

Note - would have liked to have know who made the "No Brand" filter in the test. It had over 99% filtering efficiency while having almost as low air flow restriction as KN - that is a good compromise!


I think realistically you're looking at maybe a 2% difference in filtration, at the most. And looking at the OEM filter, I would guess hardly anything - including AIR - gets through that couch cushion. Comparing the two filters side-by-side and knowing how my car felt with each in, I would go as far to say that there is around a 15% increase in air flow. I don't know about anyone else, but I am quite comfortable giving up 2% to gain 15% - especially when I can feel a noticeable difference in my acceleration now and my city mpg.

However, I do believe in good research and buyer-beware, so I thank you for your sharing and research into this!

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:11 pm
by gaww
Careful. While a loss of filter efficiency from 99.93 to 06.8 does not sound like much (as it did not to me either originally), the fact that really stood out after reading the test was the amount of dirt passed through .4 grams in one hour for the AC Delco vs 7.0 grams for the KN in 24 minutes.

This was at relatively high air flows (350 CF/minute) and dust input, but think about it - 45 times the rate of dust getting through the KN. Don't know the flow rate in typical driving but over thousands of miles - the impact of that added dust will add up. That is why I am thinking of one of the higher flow rate paper filters as a compromise.

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:17 pm
by Hawkzilla
I'm careful about everything I do,believe me. To mee the numbers you are putiing out are a non-issue. While you can say 40x or whatever, the end result is still very small and gets burned up anyway. If these filters were killing cars, you would hear about it everywhere.

I'm not saying you shouldn't worry, I'm saying I read the same thing you did and I'm choosing to not be concerned.

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:05 pm
by TheHolyGhost
Seconded, K&N is a huge filter company. Millions of people use their filters. If they were ruining engines I don't think they'd be able to hide it. That being said, more dirt is more dirt, so if you want to keep it out, K&N may not be your best bet. The jury is just out on whether it needs to be kept out.

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:36 pm
by Hawkzilla
gaww wrote:Careful. While a loss of filter efficiency from 99.93 to 06.8 does not sound like much (as it did not to me either originally), the fact that really stood out after reading the test was the amount of dirt passed through .4 grams in one hour for the AC Delco vs 7.0 grams for the KN in 24 minutes.

This was at relatively high air flows (350 CF/minute) and dust input, but think about it - 45 times the rate of dust getting through the KN. Don't know the flow rate in typical driving but over thousands of miles - the impact of that added dust will add up. That is why I am thinking of one of the higher flow rate paper filters as a compromise.


I have to ask, do you use a standard oil filter? I use a Fram xtended guard filter that filters 97% of the junk that gets in your engine oil. Average filters (the kind auto shops use) run around 80%. This might be something to consider if you are concerned about a 2% difference when it comes to your air filter. Never go cheap on the oil filter, it will affect how your engine wears 10x more than your air filter.

Here's a very good article... http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change-7.htm

http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/xtended-guard.php

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:13 pm
by gaww
I am careful about oil filters - i totally stay away from the standard at parts stores.

In another post, I told that I was warned by an experienced service manager that manufactures always look at the oil filter of a failed warranty covered car (flow test them and cut then open). They are looking for a reason to void the warranty, and do so often based on what they find (usually plugged - and without a bypass valve). The bypass valve is the key, as its absence was the cause of most bad engines he saw.

Be sure any filter you get has a bypass valve (most "standard" ones do not), as bypassing dirty oil will not cause the engine to fail - it will affect longevity - but you most likely would be past the warranty at that point anyway.

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:19 pm
by Senegal
Hawkzilla wrote:
Senegal wrote:switched to synthetic oil today...what a difference, 1-2 mpg improvement....a much smoother engine ;)


Isn't that the truth?? I noticed a big difference in both of the things you mentioned. I'm getting mid 30s mpg one I get the cruise set on the interstate. What oil & filter did you go with, if you don't mind me asking?


it was done at a suzuki dealer, valvoline oil and suzuki oil filter. I'm going to run it 5k-5500k before next change. My mpg for doing 70-73 (my car as poor calibration on the speedometer) was 31 :mrgreen:

According to one of their rep in cali, they "document" use of non-suzuki oil filter :( of course for you guys that change your own, you should be fine, just make sure there are no spies around...lol

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:31 pm
by KCKizashi
KCKizashi wrote:OK, I just ordered mine, and had to pay a little extra for faster shipping. I'm taking the Kizzy on a road trip next week from KC to STL Mo.... we'll just see how the MPGs fare.

Well, I can't say I noticed any difference in MPG, not enough anyway to say the K&N filter made a big difference, however I could tell a difference in the engine and it felt smoother and seemed to have a bit more "get up and go" from intersections and passing on the highway.

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:12 pm
by TheHolyGhost
Maybe the get up and go is the problem. Taking advantage of that may harm your gas mileage :)

Re: K&N Filters Now Avalible for Kizashi

PostPosted:Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:41 pm
by KCKizashi
TheHolyGhost wrote:Maybe the get up and go is the problem. Taking advantage of that may harm your gas mileage :)

I'm sure they're related ;)