Kizashi Club

Your Kizashi Owners Club and Forum 

Non-Suzuki related topics. Anything can go here.
 #48515  by Ronzuki
 Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:07 pm
Yeah, agreed...she likely didn't know, but come on...no gas engine sounds, starter cranking etc., should have done something to light something up in that air head of hers.

Also agree that if we're going to be forced in to this EV non-sense, there had better be some sort of gas fired back-up in the thing for me to even consider owning one (like it or not).
 #48519  by KuroNekko
 Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:08 am
Ronzuki wrote:Yeah, agreed...she likely didn't know, but come on...no gas engine sounds, starter cranking etc., should have done something to light something up in that air head of hers.

Also agree that if we're going to be forced in to this EV non-sense, there had better be some sort of gas fired back-up in the thing for me to even consider owning one (like it or not).


I think EVs are the future and the technology makes a lot of sense to me. However, the infrastructure isn't there to support them the same way as gasoline (yet) so that's why I have some reservations. It's not the powertrain, as I generally consider electric propulsion superior to internal combustion and its necessary transmission, but more about charging and range. While I will personally admit an EV could easily replace my vehicle for all my regular driving (commuting and for work), I really like the outdoors and doing things like visiting the mountains or desert for things like camping and hiking. Given some regions like the Joshua Tree National Park are so remote that one does not even have cell signal out there, EV charging is a major concern. At least with gasoline, you can easily fill up just before entering the park and if need be, have extra fuel in auxiliary jerry cans.
This is why a PHEV that blends the convenience and capabilities of both to optimize for either urban commuting or long/remote area driving appeals to me. Until an ideal vehicle with adventure-ready features with superior efficiency is available, I'm keeping my Kizashi.
 #48948  by Ronzuki
 Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:53 am
More of the same...ole Elon just doesn't seem to get it. Fools buying this clown's experiments. They got what they paid for. Let's investigate stupidity some more...

https://www.oann.com/ntsb-opens-investi ... n-florida/

Most interesting are the reader comments after the article.
 #48951  by KuroNekko
 Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:10 pm
Straight from the article:
"Some Tesla drivers say they are able to avoid putting their hands on the wheel for extended periods when using Autopilot, while Tesla advises drivers that they must keep their hands on the steering wheel and pay attention at all times while using Autopilot."

That right there is the problem. Not technology, not automation, not Tesla but human error and laziness. Same with back-up accidents with cars equipped with rearview cameras. One can blame technology all they want but it's the human that's almost always the cause. Why? Because so many simply misuse it despite abundant warnings on the dangers of misuse and neglect. Then factor in all the human flaws of driving under the influence, road rage, fatigue, etc. and then you'll quickly see the hype and sensationalization Tesla gets over the staggering (yet mundane) realities of all the other dangers involved in driving. However, it gets more clicks to report on an accident involving a Tesla (Autopilot enabled or not) than reporting on the thousands of other accidents involving conventional vehicles.

Keep in mind that Tesla's "Autopilot" was also appropriately named as it takes from the autopilot systems in commercial aircraft. When airline pilots use autopilot, they don't then get drunk, sleep, or get distracted away from operating the aircraft. They remain to monitor systems and largely use autopilot to remain on the ideal course. However, many Tesla drivers seem to be abusing this despite the fact that Autopilot isn't a fully automated driving system designed to replace all human input.

All that being said, I'm not some kind of Tesla fanboy. The problems I find with their cars are related to design and build quality, especially for the price. The Model 3 has been subject to a number of break-ins given Tesla didn't bother to implement a backseat lock for the fold-down access to the trunk... much like they don't have fold-down rear seat headrests. When people realized this, they targeted Model 3's knowing that a quick and simple window break could allow quick access to the trunk of a $60K vehicle. Keep in mind my 1995 Subaru Impreza even had a lock feature for the rear seats to prevent this. The Kizashi even uses the car key to lock the seats and an electronic trunk access cancel button in the glove box for even greater security! These features together will even keep valets with the fob out of your trunk if you kept your physical key.

The thing about Tesla is that they are like the new Apple. They have a "leader" that has his minions and fans who pay attention to every word (tweet). They then get way more press coverage than they deserve whether good or bad. People also don't really understand their technology because it's different and often ahead of the competition so they have people who ignorantly believe one thing or another about them whether pro or against. And most of all, their products are hyped because many consumers want the image and status of owning their brand product whether practical or not. All of these factors create for a lot of misinformation and bias on either side.
 #48952  by Ronzuki
 Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:08 am
KuroNekko wrote:That right there is the problem. Not technology, not automation.


:roll: How many times must I explain this? You DO NOT PARTIALLY AUTOMATE anything of this critical nature or else these are the consequences/results that SHOULD BE EXPECTED as the provider of the automation . If something can't be fully automated, reliably, safely, and BE guaranteed to function correctly 100% of the time (short of failed componentry) UNDER NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS, YOU DO NOT AUTOMATE! Especially a retail consumer device. It is an enormous waste of time, money, and resources This a very simple, and basic, rule of automation (except in the automotive world quite obviously). They play by different rules. I suppose next they'll be engineering things that defy the laws of physics as well. Because it's cool you know and we sorta can.

It is that simple. These fools, believing because they require something to be done so their half-baked ideas can be advanced, need to go to jail.

Do you fully understand what the ramifications are if I were to automate something, not even remotely as critical as a vehicle on a public road, in such a half-assed manner? Do you? Please enlighten me...and, "the operator didn't do what he/she was supposed to operating the equipment" is NOT and answer nor an excuse.

:facepalm:
 #48955  by KuroNekko
 Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:43 am
The problem with your position is that it assumes perfected fully automated driving can be implemented from initial application on public roads. Unlike automation settings in most other industries where you can have a closed laboratory setting, you can't for cars traveling on public roads. Hence, this is why every single name in automotive automation has been testing their cars on public roads. It's the only way they can test, collect data, and improve for what they are actually trying to achieve. There is no doubt Tesla's experience and data from Autopilot will aid them immensely in achieving fully automated driving to the level where a steering wheel and pedals are not necessary in the future.

As for Tesla's Autopilot today, again, it's not supposed to be full automation. While I see your point in the risks and dangers of that (from a consumer misuse standpoint, mainly), it seems to work much better that you give it credit for. Accident aren't nearly as common as you'd think. They just get headline news when they happen, much like an airline crash as I've compared to before. It's called sensationalization and a well known tactic of media to get people to pay attention (tune in, click, like, share, etc.) given it's something out of the ordinary and mundane. Meanwhile, every day, thousands of people die in the hands of human drivers in conventional cars from the result of misjudgment, negligence, or even deliberate malice. But hey, that's normal and not worth reporting on in the news. Which is really the bigger problem? It's incontrovertible.

Lastly, money is always the main factor. You claim to hate automation in vehicles yet you bought a car with automated braking. Yes, I know you didn't want it but it was a required feature to get the option packages you desired. While that's a completely legitimate reason, it matters none to the bean-counters in the corporations making these cars. All they see is that you bought a car with automated braking over one without. The more of these cars sold, the more of them will be offered. Automation is already taking over because people are buying these things whether they work well or not. However, the increase in sales will only push them to get better even if only for the sake of competition.

I'm one who hopes more and more cars are automated because I sure as shit think many human drivers are terrible and shouldn't be driving. Hell, it's almost like a chore for some to pay attention behind the wheel. If machines can take over for many, I'm all for it. I'm tired of seeing accidents after sitting in traffic back-ups because of them. Ironically, I'm also the guy who will be driving an old school manual transmission for many years to come. On the contrary, you hate automation in automobiles yet you recently bought a new car with automated braking. It's a bit ironic how we aren't putting the money where the mouth is when that is really all that matters.
 #48958  by Woodie
 Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:45 pm
KuroNekko wrote:Straight from the article:
"Some Tesla drivers say they are able to avoid putting their hands on the wheel for extended periods when using Autopilot, while Tesla advises drivers that they must keep their hands on the steering wheel and pay attention at all times while using Autopilot."

That right there is the problem. Not technology, not automation, not Tesla but human error and laziness. Same with back-up accidents with cars equipped with rearview cameras. One can blame technology all they want but it's the human that's almost always the cause. Why? Because so many simply misuse it despite abundant warnings on the dangers of misuse and neglect.


I agree that it's still down to human error and misuse,but the way I see it, this halfway automation that works pretty well most of the time encourages the operator to become lackadaisical and misuse it.
 #48970  by Ronzuki
 Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:56 am
KuroNekko wrote:The problem with your position is that it assumes perfected fully automated driving can be implemented from initial application on public roads. Unlike automation settings in most other industries where you can have a closed laboratory setting, you can't for cars traveling on public roads. Hence, this is why every single name in automotive automation has been testing their cars on public roads.


My position absolutely NEVER assumed any such thing. My position IS that exhaustive testing with real world scenarios must be performed, and passed repeatedly, prior to giving it the old college try on public roads. If the Arizona woman's death by autonomous Uber episode didn't wake everyone up to the dangers of public road testing of unproven 'stuff', then I don't know what will, other than a whole bunch more dead people. Something unexpected walked out in front of the car. Gee, ya think that would be pretty frigging high up on the list of "MUST NOT FAIL" criteria...during controlled testing for god's sake. That was autonomy 101 epic fail right there and people should be in jail because of it. Throw some money at her family, to shut them up, grease a few political skids and business as usual right? It's all good, continue 'tesing'...on public courses. I'll have to try that should I ever be the cause of someone's unfortunate demise. You know, "oops, my bad your honor" when I don't account for all blatantly obvious scenarios (an unexpected thing in the path of the unguided weapon) and some half-assed testing before commissioning and customer transfer. Money and political favor...that's the ticket.

Please re-read what you wrote here. You are implying, correctly, what my position actually is. And that is, there is no way in hell to automate a car to negotiate U.S. roads safely. There is literally not enough money in the world to put enough proven tech into a vehicle to account for all scenarios and on all road systems, under all weather conditions in this country. Period. Again, you've stated my point exactly...just because all of these arrogant fools are testing their cars (purchased by consumers or not) on public roads doesn't make it right or even remotely acceptable.Testing ON PUBLIC ROADS...anyone have a problem with that? Pretty sure there's some dead people who, in retrospect, would.

Buying the Mazda 'with the braking system' comment is ridiculous. Damn near any NEW car worth a damn has it or will very soon. I don't buy used (other peoples headaches). And is clearly just more 'testing' that we consumers are providing, at our expense, for the advancement of all this non-sense. Don't worry, when I get it back to Mazda this month, or next, for annual state inspection, they're going to hear holy hell from me about them figuring out a way of disabling that damn system. Not likely going to make a damn bit of difference, but I will air my complaint. You can bet your ass I'm not in anyway counting on, nor relying on, that system to do anything other than get me rear-ended when so many are driving in my back seat for one reason or another. Especially after week two of ownership's near rear-ender by a JKU while attempting to negotiate a typical, everyday frigging buggy pass. Other than the braking, all the rest of the BS autonomy, primarily the steering assault, can be, and is, disabled....for now. That'll change in a couple years, I'm certain, when some yahoo decides these things don't need to be disabled. Meanwhile, here in the frigid wintry Northeast, where all this crap doesn't work in the winter (a real world scenario btw)...still scrapping ice off the outside rear view mirrors, when it can be . Another iced up morning today. Scraped the flimsy little bastards and thought they were going to crack. Think I'll stop doing that, they won't last. All about safety right?

The thought of WESHOOT trying to drive one of these techno wonders, his way, just popped in to my head :lol: Boy, I can't wait to read his dialogue on how that goes :lol:

Something else I just realized...been almost a year now and I'veI never received a questionnaire from Mazda about what I think of their car. Hmmm, guess the bean counters don't want to know, apparently.
 #48980  by WESHOOT2
 Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:28 pm
I've been crossing off potential replacements if I cannot FULLY disable traction control and stability assistance.
I still have trouble considering any car that won't let me use the brakes and accelerator simultaneously.
 #48987  by Ronzuki
 Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:56 am
You're pretty much SOL there buddy with your wants-n-desires...just sayin'.
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