So you decided to look for a Mitsubishi Evo

[Moto]

That was impressive.

What would really be impressive is if multiple manufactures to agree and work together to have the same or very similar battery back switching systems. Economics of scale would come into play and battery backs could be taken care of much better with such a system. ie you would never have to worry about your battery pack being the point of failure.

In addition places like that could really make sure that things got recycled properly which would probably bring down materials cost. Rare earth metals would be recover where when you leave it up to the consumer battery packs tend to end up places where they shouldn't.

That was a huge step in the right direction.

[KuroNekko]

I rarely see any first generation Priuses driving around.

I'm still leaning towards a hybrid gas-electric as paving the way before full-out electric vehicles become the norm. You still can't take a coast-to-coast trip off the beaten path in an electric. And after doing a drive like that exploring Route 66, I would never attempt it using today's evs with their serious range and recharge limitations. I really hate that the Fisker got such a bad rap. It is a fantastic car that embodies a lot of what we love about cars and electric cars.

As far as not comparing a car to a phone--tell that to my wife. There are many who don't share our passion for cars as being more than just another appliance in life.

The reason why you don't see many first gen Prius' is because they did not sell well. It was the second gen that got popular. The first gen Prius was like a Toyota Echo. Pretty small and chintzy so it did not appeal much to people outside the JDM. The second gen changed that and the rest is history. So the reliability of the system and the longevity of the battery are not the issue. In fact, hybrids get among the best reliability in the whole industry. CR and other publications have rated the Prius the highest reliability rating for years. Even Ford hybrids like the second gen Fusion Hybrid enjoyed excellent reliability. I've read about owners going over 150,000 miles before needing a battery replacement. By that time, it's possible the fuel savings from the hybrid powerplant would have paid for the battery.

While I agree that plug-ins or hybrids are much better for long distance driving than a full EV, I'd say the Fisker Karma is a terrible example. It was plagued with issues and it was actually pretty slow for the cost and class. In fact, the base model Tesla Model S is faster and it costs about $50,000 less than the Karma.
In comparing the Karma to the Model S, it's very clear that the Model S is a far better car. I've never ever read anything saying the opposite.
Let's also not forget that Justin Bieber owns a Karma that is totally chrome.

If I was to get a hybrid, I'd go for something more conducive to range like a Prius, Ford Fusion Hybrid, etc. For outright performance, I'd go pure EV and straight to Tesla's showroom. To me, there is no comparison between the Tesla Model S and the Fisker Karma.

Lastly, yes, there are many who don't share our passion for cars, but that's OK. There are cars like the Camry and Corolla that suit their needs much like my General Electric washing machine does for my laundry. Gets the job done. To them, it's just a machine to get them places.

To us, a quote from Sir William Lyons, the founder of Jaguar, resonates: "The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."
Cars breath, move, and react. It's a machine that generates excitement and passion because of the unique qualities it offers.

Keep in mind that being a car enthusiast among those who are not kind of makes things special. I give advice A LOT to friends, family, and co-workers and even pick out the cars for many of my female friends/co-workers who ask me to. It's rather fun for me given I like car shopping, especially when I'm not paying.

[SamirD]

That was impressive.

What would really be impressive is if multiple manufactures to agree and work together to have the same or very similar battery back switching systems. Economics of scale would come into play and battery backs could be taken care of much better with such a system. ie you would never have to worry about your battery pack being the point of failure.

In addition places like that could really make sure that things got recycled properly which would probably bring down materials cost. Rare earth metals would be recover where when you leave it up to the consumer battery packs tend to end up places where they shouldn't.

That was a huge step in the right direction.

I think getting the car manufacturers to agree on a battery for the entire car will be next to impossible when they can't even pick just one standard for a tail light bulb, dome light bulb, or starter battery. But I do think you're dead-on as to that is what they should be working towards.

What got me thinking was that battery packs could be continuously serviced. So that a single bad cell in a pack could be quickly replaced, thereby reviving the entire pack. And like you said, once a whole pack is starting to go out, break the pack down into its more basic parts and re-use what's possible, and then truck the rest to refurbing places to break eveything down further for re-use.

The reason why you don't see many first gen Prius' is because they did not sell well. It was the second gen that got popular. The first gen Prius was like a Toyota Echo. Pretty small and chintzy so it did not appeal much to people outside the JDM. The second gen changed that and the rest is history. So the reliability of the system and the longevity of the battery are not the issue. In fact, hybrids get among the best reliability in the whole industry. CR and other publications have rated the Prius the highest reliability rating for years. Even Ford hybrids like the second gen Fusion Hybrid enjoyed excellent reliability. I've read about owners going over 150,000 miles before needing a battery replacement. By that time, it's possible the fuel savings from the hybrid powerplant would have paid for the battery.

While I agree that plug-ins or hybrids are much better for long distance driving than a full EV, I'd say the Fisker Karma is a terrible example. It was plagued with issues and it was actually pretty slow for the cost and class. In fact, the base model Tesla Model S is faster and it costs about $50,000 less than the Karma.
In comparing the Karma to the Model S, it's very clear that the Model S is a far better car. I've never ever read anything saying the opposite.
Let's also not forget that Justin Bieber owns a Karma that is totally chrome.

If I was to get a hybrid, I'd go for something more conducive to range like a Prius, Ford Fusion Hybrid, etc. For outright performance, I'd go pure EV and straight to Tesla's showroom. To me, there is no comparison between the Tesla Model S and the Fisker Karma.

Lastly, yes, there are many who don't share our passion for cars, but that's OK. There are cars like the Camry and Corolla that suit their needs much like my General Electric washing machine does for my laundry. Gets the job done. To them, it's just a machine to get them places.

To us, a quote from Sir William Lyons, the founder of Jaguar, resonates: "The car is the closest thing we will ever create to something that is alive."
Cars breath, move, and react. It's a machine that generates excitement and passion because of the unique qualities it offers.

Keep in mind that being a car enthusiast among those who are not kind of makes things special. I give advice A LOT to friends, family, and co-workers and even pick out the cars for many of my female friends/co-workers who ask me to. It's rather fun for me given I like car shopping, especially when I'm not paying.

That's a good point. The original Prius was much smaller, even though the technology is basically the same in the modern day one.

I can see hybrids lasting a long time. Less wear and tear overall since two systems are sharing the load. As long as both are built reliably, there should be some great life out of them.

I really like the Fisker Karma. I had a chance to see it up close and personal:
http://www.huntsvillecarscene.com/calen ... 0-5-10&c=1

A friend of mine actually owns a siganture edition, and while there were some bugs, they were actually quickly sorted out. It's not a 0-60 monster, but it handles very, very well, and doesn't get lost in the crowd easily with its very unique but familiar styling. I've been meaning to do a followup road test article on it, but haven't had the time.

For me it's more practical too--you can drive from LA to NY without worrying about charging--big plus. To me, it was a nicer version of the Volt.

Electric vehicles will always stomp hybrids in terms of power and handling because of one thing--weight. They don't have a heavy gasoline engine and all that comes with it on board. But that's a tradeoff that works for some. There's a couple of Teslas in HSV as well as a Model S, and there's an S I see here in MKE as well. My brother got a chance to rent an Tesla Roadster Sport for a day:
http://www.huntsvillecarscene.com/calen ... 1-9-21&c=1

What do mean just a washing machine?!? I love my Askos! It was actually one of the things that swayed me on which apartment complex we moved into.

I know what you mean about being special though. It's always facinated me how I can go for a drive in one of my nice cars and have a grin on my face just driving and enjoying the drive. But the side-effect is that when people see a nice car, it gives them happiness too. It's one of the few things I've found in life that you can just do what you love and other people love it as much as you do, even though they're just spectators.

I love shopping for cars too. The second I realized we needed a car here, I was all about it. But she doesn't like anything I do, so that put a stop the entire idea. Until a little search on autotrader revealed a little car called a Kizashi. The second I said the word, my wife's face lit up since she almost bought one for her mom. And here we are.

I've actually helped a friend test drive 19 cars and buy one in a single weekend. In the end it was a Toyota Camry that was so fully loaded it might as well have been a Lexus. It was also stickered like a Lexus at $32k. A few trips to bookstores got us the real wholesale price for the car, and we negotiated an out-the-door price of $25,600. We then drove the car from Nashville to LA. And about a day after he was home with it in San Diego, his dad takes it for a spin and scuffs the corner of the front bumper.

I've helped so many people buying a car that I no longer do it. It's a lot of work, and some people don't really appreciate it, or the car that they end up with. Sometimes I wish I could have bought what I found them. In one case, I really wish I did--it was a sweet one owner 1992 Accord LX.

I remember one time my cousin and I were bored in Chicago so we acted like we were agents for high-end cliente and test drove particular cars for them and gave them written opinions. Our goal was to drive the most expensive thing we could get into, which was only a ML55 Merc. Later in life, I got pretty good at doing this. Once a group of friends and I had an evening to kill so we went to the Mercedes dealership and worked our way up to the SL600 AMG on the showroom floor. If they weren't closing, they were going to let us take a spin. We opted not to as that was more than all three of us made in a year--together.

[Woodie]

I've helped so many people buying a car that I no longer do it. It's a lot of work, and some people don't really appreciate it, or the car that they end up with.

Or, act as if you're responsible for any little problem they might have, even five years down the road.

I told my nephew (probably 22 yo at the time) to go on down to the Suzuki garage and get an Aerio or SX4, don't get a Reno, Forenza, or Verona as they are NOT Suzukis, they are Deawoos. He bought a Forenza and to this day I can't convince him that he did not follow my advice.

[KuroNekko]

I've helped so many people buying a car that I no longer do it. It's a lot of work, and some people don't really appreciate it, or the car that they end up with.

Or, act as if you're responsible for any little problem they might have, even five years down the road.

I told my nephew (probably 22 yo at the time) to go on down to the Suzuki garage and get an Aerio or SX4, don't get a Reno, Forenza, or Verona as they are NOT Suzukis, they are Deawoos. He bought a Forenza and to this day I can't convince him that he did not follow my advice.

The Reno, Forenza, and Verona ruined Suzuki's reputation in the US. That with GM's management, brought them down to the very bottom. Suzuki then took the misstep of not bringing the Swift at a critical time. Nail in coffin. The Kizashi did not even have a chance.

My aunt owned a Verona and she hated it. It was a lemon. I told her that it was not a real Suzuki and pointed out that the VIN did not start with a "J". She then traded it in for a Grand Vitara that she liked. To people like us, it's really "Well, no shit."

[SamirD]

I've helped so many people buying a car that I no longer do it. It's a lot of work, and some people don't really appreciate it, or the car that they end up with.

Or, act as if you're responsible for any little problem they might have, even five years down the road.

I told my nephew (probably 22 yo at the time) to go on down to the Suzuki garage and get an Aerio or SX4, don't get a Reno, Forenza, or Verona as they are NOT Suzukis, they are Deawoos. He bought a Forenza and to this day I can't convince him that he did not follow my advice.

Yeah, I've been burned by that one a few times too. I find it's easier to let people come to me with problems after they bought something and then I tell them what they should have bought. Then they feel bad for not asking me vs me feel bad for helping them.

[SamirD]

The Reno, Forenza, and Verona ruined Suzuki's reputation in the US. That with GM's management, brought them down to the very bottom.

It was interesting to see Forenzas in India badged as Chevrolet. Like that was going to help Chevy's image in a new market.

And the whole Chevrolet=American thing drives me nuts sometimes. Chevrolet was originally French!

[KuroNekko]

And the whole Chevrolet=American thing drives me nuts sometimes. Chevrolet was originally French!

Chevrolet is American. It was founded in Detroit, MI. The name is of French origin (founder was actually Swiss), but the brand was founded in the USA so it's American.

A lot of people may think Bugatti is Italian, but it's not. It's French. Founder Ettore Bugatti was Italian, but his company was started in Germany and then moved to France. The famous Bugatti Veyron is built in France.

Similar story with Pagani. The company is Italian, but founder Horacio Pagani is actually an Argentinian. Regardless, the cars are built in Italy and even come with little Italian flag accents on their beautiful CF mirrors.

[SamirD]

Yes, it's an American company, but for Americans to run around pounding their chests with a French name kinda dilutes the 100% pure bred American idology.

Of course, there is no such thing as 100% American because we're all 100% immigrants. Except for the Native Americans, of course.

[KuroNekko]

Oh, I forgot to tell my car advice story from today.
So a female co-worker (my office knows me as a gearhead car nut) emails me this morning saying her car is making very strange, loud, awful noises following a tire rotation at a dealership. She called the young flirty service adviser and told him about it. He dismissed it and said it was merely because her rear tires were "worn to zero". She then asked me if that was possible. I told her I'd take a look at her tires.

Later that day, I went and looked at her 2012 Mazda CX-7 (I told her to go for the CX-5, but she went for the 7 because of the styling ). Anyhow, her rear tires had rather low tread left, but not an alarming amount and nothing that could cause "noise". I then test rode with her and we found out it was coming from her front driver side wheel. It was a noise I've never heard before. Sounded somewhat like a tire hitting a wheel well trim piece, but still different. I had her park in the garage and I inspected her tire and wheel well. Nothing abnormal. Puzzled, I then looked and touched her lug nuts. Loose. How loose? I loosened them with very light pressure from my fingers. All of them this loose. The Toyota DEALERSHIP she got her service from did not even tighten her lug nuts!!! The noise was from her wheel wobbling on the wheel studs. What the flying F.

I showed her this and told her she was very lucky to make it to work from the dealership. They were so loose that they could have come off rather easily and caused an accident or serious damage to her car. I got out her spare tire kit and tightened all the lug nuts to what my experience tells me is about 90 foot pounds of torque and checked all other wheels (they were OK). I then told her that the dealership made an inexcusable error and the fact that the service adviser dismissed her complaint with some bullshit was absolutely unacceptable.
She then told me that she was going to call the dealership as soon as I left and that she was "going to let her Dominican and a good bit of Jersey come out on them". At that point, I quickly left her car.