murcod wrote:The 200 sounds interesting- is RHD production on the table? I wonder if we'll get it in Australia? We used to get the Neon and Sebring (<- yuck, why did they bother!?) But, from their poor sales, I get the feeling Chrysler might be hesitant to bring any further mid size offerings over here? The Dodge Avenger was also sold locally but their sales figures would make the Kizashi look like a Corolla!
Under it's FIAT ownership I couldn't see why this European originated platform would not be market widely.
The older 200 (formerly Sebring) is actually selling fairly well in the U.S. right now due to huge discounts.
murcod wrote:The 200 sounds interesting- is RHD production on the table? I wonder if we'll get it in Australia? We used to get the Neon and Sebring (<- yuck, why did they bother!?) But, from their poor sales, I get the feeling Chrysler might be hesitant to bring any further mid size offerings over here? The Dodge Avenger was also sold locally but their sales figures would make the Kizashi look like a Corolla!
The 200 rides on the same platform as the Avenger. The Avenger was lambasted as one of the worst cars sold in America and the old 200 was not far from it in criticism. This is why the new 200 is getting a lot of attention because even its looks are a huge improvement. I'm curious to see what they will do to the Dodge Avenger.
SamirD wrote:
This is exactly why every car on the road looks like every other one. Even the colors are the same!
The trunk of the Kizashi is definitely stolen and maybe the exhaust diffusers, although the Kizashi took the idea of those from someone else.
I guess it's the safe option. Look at the bagging Jeep have received for the new Cherokee - we don't get them here yet, so I haven't seen one in the flesh. IMHO it is good to see something different and I look forward to seeing one in the flesh.
SamirD wrote:
This is exactly why every car on the road looks like every other one. Even the colors are the same!
The trunk of the Kizashi is definitely stolen and maybe the exhaust diffusers, although the Kizashi took the idea of those from someone else.
I guess it's the safe option. Look at the bagging Jeep have received for the new Cherokee - we don't get them here yet, so I haven't seen one in the flesh. IMHO it is good to see something different and I look forward to seeing one in the flesh.
I've seen a number of them given I live in the US. Honestly, the front that was so commonly criticized is better looking than the rear. I don't like the rear of the new Cherokee very much. The best looking Jeep is the Grand Cherokee by far. I like the look of the 2 door Wranglers, but the 4 door versions are just weird. You can tell it was a product of Jeep trying to push the Wranglers onto people who would have otherwise got something else.
I like the looks of the new Dodge Dart, but I still don't trust most of the Chrysler lineup. I really have to say that there really isn't very much out there that's exciting anymore in the world of American cars. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but I mean really... Look at American cars now. The most exciting car Ford makes now is the ST focus, and EU has had it for years. All the good Chrysler products are either Fiats or Alphas. Chevy could not design thier way out of a wet paper bag and would have NOTHING even ALMOST exciting if it weren't for Holden coming up with the Sonic and Cruise. (Which aren't particularly exciting, but better than the Fiesta and Focus competition.)
IMHO, Japan and Germany make the only affordable driving excitement. Honda has the Fit which although I have never driven one myself, the design allows for a great deal of room, and I have been told the 6MT sport version in a blast in the twistys (although the body design is becoming a bit dated). Nissan has the Juke (although ugly, I have to admit the design is exciting!) and the new Versa that is enormous on the inside and has great features and options for such a low pricepoint. Plus, the car has such an elegant design, it appeals to a wide variety of buyers. Mazda's new lineup is pretty exciting all the way around. It's fresh and new and no one has anything that remotely copies it anywhere. Although I'm personally not a fan of the new touch screen and radio controls (It looks too aftermarket and not well thought out...) I think they were definately trying to design something fresh. Mitsubishi makes a couple good SUV's, but all-in-all, their entire line up is boring and not really worth a second look.
My point is simple, American made cars are boring. We're light years behind Europe and Japan in almost every way. Reliability, design, inginuity, craftsmanship, safety, etc... I really think we should have let Chevy and Chrysler fail in 2008. If they failed, it was because they FAILED in all the above listed categories. Maybe then we would have gotten some better offerings from companies that make exciting cars like Renault, Vauxhall, Seat, Holden (even though it's technically GM) or even the return of Isuzu... Just my opinion though...
sx4rocious wrote:Chevy could not design thier way out of a wet paper bag and would have NOTHING even ALMOST exciting if it weren't for Holden coming up with the Sonic and Cruise. (Which aren't particularly exciting, but better than the Fiesta and Focus competition.)
Wow, that's an interesting perspective!
In Australia (ie. Holden's own turf) the Fiesta and Focus are viewed (and reviewed in magazines) as being a cut above the Sonic (Barina locally) and Cruze. It's only since the last Cruze upgrade - late last year- the Cruze is now gaining ground. The Barina (Sonic) is still reviewed as inferior to the Fiesta. eg http://www.caradvice.com.au/205289/2013 ... dx-review/
Holden do make the Cruze locally, but it was originally imported. Local production is also closing in a couple of years due to it being uneconomical. From what I've read they do have a lot of input into the world wide Cruze manufacturing- especially as far as suspension tuning goes. Both (from memory) have their roots in the defunct Daewoo company GM purchased years ago.
The Barina (Sonic) is fully imported; Holden would have input into the design but they don't make it.
Bottom line is Holden certainly didn't design them or come up with them- they're GM global products.
thank you for the insight. I read here that the Sonic and Cruise were both Holden products, and the Spark was a hold-over from Daewoo. The same article mentioned the Sonic in another area as also coming FROM Daewoo, but solely as a Holden product. It goes to show you that you can't trust everything you read. Thanks for the correction.
As far as the Focus and the Fiesta being better than the Sonic and the Cruise, at least in my neck of the woods, both VASTLY outsell the Ford products. In fact, I would say the Chevy products are outselling the Ford competition almost 2 to 1. I really dislike either tho, so I guess it doesn't really matter to me...
Ahhhhh.... if you're looking purely at sales figures then the Holdens most likely will be ahead - definitely with the Cruze vs Focus. However, vehicle sales rarely indicate the quality of the product - a classic example is the Kizashi! I was looking specifically at various magazine/ online reviews comparing the models for build quality, safety, equipment and the driving experience. The Barina many years ago was sourced from Opel (the Corsa). When Holden switched to the first Daewoo replacement it was a total disaster of a car in comparison. Comparatively poor handling and a shocking crash test result. The previous Euro sourced Barina was light years ahead, but not as beneficial for Holden's back pocket. There's a bit on it here: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-ne ... 1kb2s.html
The problems started for Holden back in 2006 when it switched from the German-made Opel Corsa-based Barina to a cheaper one sourced from General Motors’ Korean division, Daewoo.
However, when crash-tested, the Korean-sourced car’s safety rating plummeted to two stars out of a possible five, well down on the four stars scored by the previous Opel-based car.
The embarrassing result resulted in former Holden managing director Mark Reuss questioning the company’s decision to switch to the Korean-sourced car, and a major safety upgrade to the
Barina in 2008 with structural improvements to the body and the inclusion of side airbags as standard equipment, lifting the Barina to a four-star crash rating.
PS: Holden is very clever with their marketing campaigns and Ford (Australia) are just plain stupid! That makes a huge difference to local sales with a large proportion of the population seeming to be sucked in by it!?
