Off topic talk from Whinning CVT thread - Korean cars etc

[KuroNekko]

Even though I've got used to the cvt and sometimes even find it enjoyable i really think it is the Kizashi's weakest point. I would love to drive the Kizashi with a good traditional 6 speed auto as it may make the difference between a good car and and great car. On top of that there's the reliability concerns with the cvt that we probably wouldn't have with a traditional auto. These are concerns owners should not have to wear in a brand with the reputation of Suzuki. Eventually they'll probably iron out the reliability and driveability problems of cvt transmissions however I find it quite arrogant, disreputable and frustrating that car companies are selling cars at full price to owners with technology that is clearly still in development.

CVTs were mainly implemented for auto companies to meet fuel economy standards. Everything else was a lower priority. As we all know, the Kizashi's engine technology is outdated now (though around par when it debuted in 2009). The CVT helped the Kizashi achieve acceptable fuel economy, at least on paper.
However, CVTs are generally terrible to drive for performance and are not very reliable. Rumor has it that Audi, who is one of the earliest proponents of CVTs, will literally shift away from CVTs and go with other types of automatic transmissions. This can only be a good move given Audi has seen a lot of trouble with the reliability of CVTs and their brand is intended to be a performance luxury brand, rivaling BMW.
Here's an article on this: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/24/audi ... vt-report/

While I've never driven a Kizashi with a CVT, I can tell you that the 6 speed manual Kizashi doesn't disappoint. It's not a fast car (no normally aspirated car weighing 3300+ lbs with a 4 cylinder is), but it's not a slouch either. I find it fun to drive which can be rarely said for the segment it occupies: Midsize family sedan or even compact 4 door, whichever you see the Kizashi fit.

I agree with you that a 6 speed auto would have been better and would have been more rewarding to own even if it delivered a few less MPGs. At least it would have been more fun to drive and also more reliable.

I truly believe that as long as CVTs are around, especially for cars in this segment, there is a compelling argument to drive a manual. Give a shift.

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[coref1]

Good video. I'd like to drive a manual(stick shift) again but unfortunately my wife needs an auto so it's not practical for me. Audi with some of it's vehicles, Suzuki with the Swift Sport and even Subaru with the WRX using cvt's, why would you put a cvt in a sports vehicle it just doesn't make sense.

[KuroNekko]

Good video. I'd like to drive a manual(stick shift) again but unfortunately my wife needs an auto so it's not practical for me. Audi with some of it's vehicles, Suzuki with the Swift Sport and even Subaru with the WRX using cvt's, why would you put a cvt in a sports vehicle it just doesn't make sense.

I've come to realize that many outside of North America may not get the video as it was actually a parody of a famous commercial/advertisement supporting the adoption of shelter animals. Here's the famous video it's spoofing. This makes the "Give a Shift" manual transmission video more amusing.

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CVTs don't make sense for performance-oriented cars, but if they are light enough in weight, it may not be all too horrible. I've heard that the new WRX's CVT is much better than one would expect, but it's too new to say how it would handle the WRX's turbo AWD drivetrain in the long run. The positive thing is that Subaru's CVTs are among the most reputable and leagues better than JATCO units found in other brands. Regardless, I'd stay away from a CVT Rex, but love me a manual one, especially now that they're finally 6 speeds.

Well here is the update. The new trans is in and it's like a whole different car. There is no lag when shifting into gear, there is no noise and it is much smoother. The lowand rough idle is also mostly gone. Paperwork said internal trans failure so if you have the same symptoms I had you will need a new trans. If it will give me 50k more miles I will be happy and then switch back to a normal auto.

Awesome to hear that you got a new CVT and that the car is back to greatness. You mind looking at the work order and seeing if the part numbers are the same as the old CVT? One of the things we are trying to figure out is if the exact same CVT is still being implemented or if replacements are modified CVTs that potentially have the design/parts to deal with the problem.

If there is no useful info on the work order, pictures of the CVT pan under the car would be helpful in seeing and comparing with the old CVT design. If it's true that a potential fix is a deeper pan and replacement CVTs have them, that should be noticeably different than an original one in comparison photos.

[coref1]

I've come to realize that many outside of North America may not get the video as it was actually a parody of a famous commercial/advertisement supporting the adoption of shelter animals. Here's the famous video it's spoofing. This makes the "Give a Shift" manual transmission video more amusing.

Maybe we should start a new campaign "Abuse a Kizashi cvt not an animal."

[coref1]

I like the look of the Hyundais but I'm not convinced their handling is as good as the better Japanese cars yet and a good handling car is important to me. I don't think the Elantra Sport is available in Aus anyway.
I'm already retired so changing cars so soon is also a problem for me but I'm thinking it's better to change then be up for a new tranny every few years. I'll see what the situation is in 3 years time.

[KuroNekko]

I like the look of the Hyundais but I'm not convinced their handling is as good as the better Japanese cars yet and a good handling car is important to me. I don't think the Elantra Sport is available in Aus anyway.
I'm already retired so changing cars so soon is also a problem for me but I'm thinking it's better to change then be up for a new tranny every few years. I'll see what the situation is in 3 years time.

Korean cars are known in the US to have soft suspensions meaning they don't handle too well. Enthusiast sites even talk about the "Hyundai ride" in which it's obvious the cars value comfort over handling.
Despite Hyundai and KIA's vast improvements recently, there is still a massive void with them in terms of the sports car/performance segment. They've instead focused more on luxury recently so we've seen the Equus, K900, and the brand new Genesis.

They have the Genesis Coupe (despite the name, it's really nothing like the Genesis sedan) which is supposed to be their "Sports Car" but nearly everything I've read about the car says it's half-baked. Handling is not up to par and neither is the drivetrain. The manual transmission was described as vague and prone to causing mis-shifts compared to rivals.
The Nissan 370Z is apparently much much better. Not surprising as Nissan's been at it for around four decades.
I don't consider the Veloster a sports car. It's barely a GTI-fighter in its top turbo trim.

Personally, the only Korean cars that interest me are the unpopular Azera and the brand new Genesis. Not saying the Sonata and Elantra are bad, but their competition are much better cars to drive from just about every single review and comparo-report I've ever read.

[murcod]

From what I've read, Hyundai and Kia do local suspension development for the Aussie models as US spec "wallowy" suspension doesn't go down well here. I often see mention of "Euro" and "USA" suspension tunes for a lot of global manufacturers -> with USA = soft , Euro = firmer, more handling orientated. We normally seem to get the Euro spec if they're the only two options.

Kia seem to have the better models for handling over Hyundai (in the local line ups.) But they still don't seem to be quite up there with the class leaders.

[coref1]

From what I've read, Hyundai and Kia do local suspension development for the Aussie models as US spec "wallowy" suspension doesn't go down well here. I often see mention of "Euro" and "USA" suspension tunes for a lot of global manufacturers -> with USA = soft , Euro = firmer, more handling orientated. We normally seem to get the Euro spec if they're the only two options.

Kia seem to have the better models for handling over Hyundai (in the local line ups.) But they still don't seem to be quite up there with the class leaders.

Exactly how I see it murcod. Even though Australia is a relatively small market a lot of Car makers will tune suspensions to suit Aus conditions in fact I still think locally built cars are the best overall for Australian roads as they have the most local input to their suspensions. Unfortunately locally built cars won't be around much longer. I'll have to say the Kizashi is pretty good though.

[Bizzenn]

The genesis coupe handles awesome! The others handle well enough for my commute but I'm also considering a fusion sport or mkz(2011-2012). They are sleepers in both the speed and handling dept. as far as the hyundais and kiss go, I think their suspension will be on par with the new 2015 models. They are surpassing the Japanese.

[KuroNekko]

The genesis coupe handles awesome! The others handle well enough for my commute but I'm also considering a fusion sport or mkz(2011-2012). They are sleepers in both the speed and handling dept. as far as the hyundais and kiss go, I think their suspension will be on par with the new 2015 models. They are surpassing the Japanese.

I actually like the Ford Fusion, Lincoln MKZ, and (don't forget!) Mercury Milan. I've driven a few as I've recommended them to co-workers as used cars. They are rather quiet and comfortable. The 4 cylinder models are very reliable, mainly thanks to their Mazda-engineered engines. That being said, the Kizashi is a better handling car. I wouldn't want to let go of my Kizashi for a Fusion of the same MY. Maybe it'd be a different story had I got a CVT in my Kizashi.

As for Hyundai and KIA handling: I've not read a single review that said their suspensions are getting sportier and rivaling the sporty-handling Japanese cars. Most reviews have stated they are soft and tuned for comfort. In this regard, they can't touch Japanese cars like the Mazda6 and Kizashi not to mention entry-level sports sedans from Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus.

Personally, I see Korean cars compared to Japanese cars like Japanese cars compared to German cars. In some ways, they are rivaling them and in others, still far off. The Germans offer performance in ways the Japanese don't touch. The Germans have their AMGs, RS/S Line, and M Series. The Japanese brands will maybe offer one model with some serious performance, but still not up to par. The Japanese also package their sports sedans like they do family midsizes. They make things like AWD and manual transmissions mutually exclusive. Meanwhile, Audi offers a S4 with a stick shift and AWD and LSD via a supercharged V6.

The Korean cars don't even try to be sporty. They are focused on mass sellers with wallowy suspensions. They've also improved on reliability and safety, but aren't really up there yet. I've yet to hear of a Korean car with 200,000+ miles. I've personally driven a mid-90's Japanese car past that and know numerous college-aged girls with hand-me-down Camrys with 225,000+ miles yet they don't even know how to check the oil.

Cars all around are improving and closer matching their crowned rivals, but there is still a difference which was earned from experience.