Kizashi Club

I follow this auto blog (http://www.subcompactculture.com/) regularly. The owner\writer of the blog gives a lot of valuable, unbiased insight into mainly subcompact cars, but the blog itself is very well written and interesting. One thing he does that I really appreciate is the monthy subcompact sales reports he releases.

The thing I find extremely interesting is the number of electric car sales in the US. Call me crazy, but I rather like the look of the Mitsubishi iMiev and really though it might Americans a reasonably priced alternative to the Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, all-electric Chevy Spark, and that wierd Gee Wizz Indian thing popping up over here now.

Apparently I was WAY wrong. According to the sales records listed, the iMiev racked up a whopping 17 sales accross the nation in June. 17!! Like I said, I rather like the unusual and futuristic look of the car and the listed range really isn't too far off the competition at 68-98 miles depending on the driving enviornment. Misubishi provides a 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery system in the car. Safety features are outstanding for an electric, and it's even a sizable car with a 4 person carry capacity. It has 66 bhp and 145 torques (for comparison, the first Tesla Roadster had a 200 bhp motor).

So what's the deal? You can pick one of these cars up for just over $15,000 after the tax credit, so why aren't they selling? People are lining up accross the nation to buy used Fiskar Karma's (mainly because Justin Beiber had one) and there's a lenthy waiting list for the Tesla Model S. Understandable since both are performance luxury cars. The Ford C-Max is a far inferior car according to what I've heard, but VASTLY outsells the iMiev. Even the plug in Prius (blech!!!) sells 10 times the units and the car is outdated in design and hideously over-priced.

Do you think America simply isn't ready for full on electrics? If so, why is the Toyota plug in selling so well? Range is similar... I don't know and I'm rather confused about it. The iMiev seems to be a superior car in several ways, but DANG! 17 units? And they call the Kizashi a sales flop!

The i-MiEV is a big flop here too - I read they haven't sold many at all. There are a lot of Prius' around- I guess people see hybrids as the "safer" option?

I was reading Renault were releasing an electric vehicle where you can swap the battery pack over to "recharge" it. That (to me) is an excellent idea as it takes away from the owner the $$$ burden of replacing the batteries when they fail. http://www.caradvice.com.au/124096/2012 ... australia/ (the story is old and I don't think it has been released here yet )

Even with an 8yr battery warranty, imagine the sort of astronomical figures you're likely to have to pay when the pack does fail. It makes any fuel "savings" you make questionable if you keep the vehicle past that warranty period. Resale values, once the vehicle is a few years old, would also have to take a big hit (any secondhand buyer would naturally have fears of battery longevity and question how the pack had been "treated" by the previous owner.)

The Mitsubishi i-MiEV is somewhat like a glorified golf cart. While it's a 4 door car, it's tiny and rather low in terms of refinement. Take a look inside the cabin. It's like an electric version of a Mitsubishi Mirage which happens to be the cheapest new car sold in America. It's not really appealing unless you want new on a very tight budget.

I consider the i-MiEV as a cheap EV to just scoot around a city. It's like a grocery-getter or short-range commuter car for people who otherwise may not opt for a car. This is also why I think it's a flop in wide, spacious nations like the US and Australia. The i-MiEV and many other current EVs are best suited for densely populated urban areas with high fuel prices. Something like the i-MiEV would suit places like Tokyo, Hong Kong, New York City, London, etc., but not too much in more spacious locales.

I think the Nissan Leaf is vastly better as an EV. It's more spacious and its interior rivals cars like the Altima. I actually liked the one I sat in at an auto show. Not surprisingly, it's among the best selling EVs in America.
That being said, it's rumored these cars have their battery run times cut in half in very cold weather. Much like a cell phone battery dies faster in the cold, EV batteries are subject to it as well.

Tesla is a distant king in terms of EVs, but that's because of their price. These cars start at $62,000 USD and go over $115,000 USD. They also have the performance and range no other EV can touch. For example, the performance specs of the Tesla Model S P85+ outperform quite a few Porsche 911 trims.
That being said, it's not all good news with Tesla. They have rather high rates of drive component failure and a number of people have had entire drive units replaced (this includes the motor, inverter, and gearbox). Some automobile publications are on their 3rd drive unit given constant failures. One owner is said to be on his 6th drive unit.
While these were covered under warranty, it's not reassuring to know Model S drive units have a high rate of failure even when new. They can only get worse with age and the estimated price of replacing a single drive unit out of pocket is $15,000... the starting price of an i-MiEV. Ouch.
Tesla needs to work this out if it wants to be a major player in the auto industry, especially given they are about to release the Model X SUV and the $35K Model III sedan is on the horizon.

I'm also not surprised at all about the Prius as that's a PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle). These are actually enticing cars to own for urbanites as they have a limited range in which they run fully on electricity, just like an EV. When that charge runs out, they switch to a hybrid mode with a gasoline engine either as a traditional hybrid or the engine acting as a generator for electricity, such as seen with the Chevy Volt. The Volt also happens to be one of the most reliable cars in America and the only model not recalled by GM this year.

These PHEVs give you the best of both worlds though they compromise performance and range in each category. Truth be told, I'd take a PHEV Prius any day over a Nissan Leaf or Mitsu i-MiEV. At least I could take long road trips with it and not worry about charging stations and charging times. While they are limited in full EV range, they offer about 25~35 miles on electricity alone. That covers my work commute plus they can go any range a gasoline car can.

I really think the reason why the Mitsubishi i-MiEV is not a strong seller is because it's simply not suited for driving conditions that many Americans see. Having lived in Australia, I can say the same. This little dinky EV is best for inner city driving so it's only ideal for those in large, congested cities. As of now, PHEVs are much better suited for those in the US and Australia than EVs.

The PHEV I'm actually looking forward to is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. This SUV offers AWD while also being able to run on electricity and a gas engine. Its had some mishaps due to battery supplier issues, but that has been resolved and sales have resumed in Japan and Europe. It's actually popular in some EV-loving Scandinavian nations and has won awards in Japan.
Mitsubishi is said to be delaying the US launch until they get a refresh out given how poorly the current conventional Outlander is doing in the USDM.

The idea of a SUV that has AWD plus can run as an economical EV commuter greatly appeals to me and possibly to many other Americans. If Mitsubishi can price it, style it, and market it right, I think they may have a comeback kid in their dreadful line-up.

I think it's about the cost as much as anything. In Australia we get no financial subsidy to buy green vehicles so at present we're paying heaps more for vehicles with new mostly unproven technology, unknown reliability and poor resale value. Eventually as oil prices go up green vehicles will become financially viable, I'm sure we'll see a lot more on the road.
I think the Mitsubishi Outlander mentioned is already on sale in Australia. I read one review about it which indicated it was more of a town car then a true off roader but either way 4wd's aren't my cup of tea anyway.
The other big change coming is self driving vehicles which will be huge.

Yes, the Outlander is here. Apparently they ran them in the last Paris Dakar with minimal mods (ie. stock drive train) ?

Noticed the following on Engadget....

A few weeks ago, Edmunds posted its findings after blazing the highways in Tesla's Model S for nearly a year and a half. In addition to falling short of the promised 265-mile range, a series of service trips saw the drive unit replaced three separate times. Today, CEO Elon Musk announced via the company blog that the warranty on that part has been extended to match the battery pack's infinite mile coverage. The unit will be replaced within eight years no matter the odometer reading. What's more, the new warranty terms apply to any Model S built thus far -- not just the popular 85kWh model cited in the report. "If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines... then our warranty policy should reflect that," Musk noted in the post.

Good to see them backing their product.

Regarding electric vehicles not matching the claimed range- how many petrol vehicle owners ever match the specified fuel economy rating? I'd imagine it must the same criteria with some dubious government mandated test procedure being followed on a chassis dyno. Real world figures are often totally different, however you can use the figures to compare between vehicles for which should return better efficiency/ longer range.

ragmopp01 wrote:Noticed the following on Engadget....

A few weeks ago, Edmunds posted its findings after blazing the highways in Tesla's Model S for nearly a year and a half. In addition to falling short of the promised 265-mile range, a series of service trips saw the drive unit replaced three separate times. Today, CEO Elon Musk announced via the company blog that the warranty on that part has been extended to match the battery pack's infinite mile coverage. The unit will be replaced within eight years no matter the odometer reading. What's more, the new warranty terms apply to any Model S built thus far -- not just the popular 85kWh model cited in the report. "If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines... then our warranty policy should reflect that," Musk noted in the post.

I was actually going to post on this given that coincidentally, just one day after I wrote my post above, I read that Tesla announced their infinite mileage coverage on drive units.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

murcod wrote:Yes, the Outlander is here. Apparently they ran them in the last Paris Dakar with minimal mods (ie. stock drive train) ?

Looks like they've used them in similar sort of events.

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murcod wrote:Regarding electric vehicles not matching the claimed range- how many petrol vehicle owners ever match the specified fuel economy rating?

I do, that's all I care about. I regularly beat the EPA numbers by 10%. That's what I expect when I get a new car, and it usually turns out near that number.