Large diameter rims with skinny tyres - the new future?

Non-Suzuki related topics. Anything can go here.
murcod
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http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/skin ... 0qelg.html
Tyre design is blasting back to the future with car makers set to adopt larger diameter wheels with significantly skinnier tyres than most cars are running today.

Despite decades of tyres getting bigger and wider, there is a new trend towards narrower tyres with a large diameter.

The emerging trend towards skinnier tyres is being driven by a desire to reduce fuel use and carbon dioxide emissions.
Tyre companies, including Michelin (pictured) are experimenting with taller, narrower rubber.

Tyre companies, including Michelin (pictured) are experimenting with taller, narrower rubber.

"This is the new future," said Damien Hallez, Michelin's head of technical communications. "It helps to improve the energy efficiency [and use less fuel]."

Hallez said every centimetre a tyre increases in diameter there is roughly a 1 per cent reduction in rolling resistance (all things being equal), which is the tyres internal resistance that slows it as it rolls across the ground.

So increasing a tyre's diameter by 2 inches (tyre diameters are measured in inches, not centimetres) would reduce that rolling friction by about 5 per cent.

Having less rubber width also brings improves aerodynamics and further reduces rolling resistance.

"Increasing the diameter we gain in rolling resistance without losing all the security aspects of wet and dry grip," said Hallez.

"There's less deformation of the tyre in the compact patch [the part of the tyre that is touching the road at any time] and less deformation in the side walls so that helps to gain in energy efficiency."

He also said skinnier tyres were better suited to dissipating water, therefore reducing the chance of aquaplaning, or skipping across the surface of the water.

"It's like a boat, it's much more efficient [at going through water]."

Renault design boss Laurens van den Acker agreed wheel and tyre designs would continue to get larger in diameter but with skinnier, more energy efficient tyres.

"It is one of those things that is the best of both worlds," said van den Acker. "The designers want big wheel and the engineers and aerodynamicists want narrow wheels.

"It gives you good comfort, it's good for CO2 … because it has less resistance."

Van den Acker said the only potential negative was in braking performance, something that had to be monitored.

But he said the benefits far outweighed the negatives, particularly when it came to aesthetics.

"If the choice was between having large tyres that are a bit skinny or small tyres that are a bit fat I would still go for the large ones because from the side view it is undoubtedly better," he said.

However, because the skinny tyres are still relatively new – despite being similar widths to tyres sold 40 or 50 years ago – van den Acker said there were issues with supply of replacements.

"What's stopping us is not technology, what's stopping us is tyre manufacturers who are just happy to supply the same tyre and the clients who are feeling more comfortable that the tyre can be bought anywhere, so you have to create a market for these special tyres," said van den Acker.

BMW is one of the first manufacturers to use the new breed of skinny tyres in a production car with its upcoming i3 electric car.

The bulbous carbon-fibre-bodied hatchback gets wheels that are 19 inches in diameter – commensurate to the diameter of wheels used on many performance and luxury cars – but the tyres are almost half as wide as some tyres.

At the front the BMW i3's tyres are just 155mm wide, while the rears are 175mm wide.

By comparison the popular BMW 3-Series has tyres that are between 225mm and 255mm wide, while the Holden Commodore tyres range from 225mm and 275mm.

Various concept cars have also used the larger diameter skinny tyres, while Citroen's C4 Cactus uses 18-inch tyres that are just 155mm wide.

Michelin's Hallez said in many cases the contact patch of rubber on the road was similar to a smaller diameter, wider tyre, so grip levels were often not compromised.
Interesting article. Given I have changed my tyres / rims to wider sizes I also find the fuel efficiency claims interesting- as I can't say I've seen any worse economy.... :lol:
David
bootymac
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Save it for the hypermilers. I like my fat grippy tires
murcod
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Sadly, that will probably be the way all vehicles will ultimately head.

Hasn't the US government got some mandatory average fuel consumption for it's manufacturers to meet? They'll be looking at using "gadgets" like these tyres (and those damn CVT's :x ) to get better fuel specs..... at least better on paper! :roll:

A lot of manufacturers already fit tyre models that are supposedly more fuel efficient.

When you think about it the larger diameter will also result in a smoother ride - something else desirable to all manufacturers.
David
bootymac
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I looked up the i3 and it's actually not too bad.155/60R-20 and 175/55R-20 Bridgestone Ecopias and 0.78g on a skidpad.

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SamirD
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This is almost totally ridiculous. The amount of additional unsprung weight from a larger rim and bigger brakes will really hurt city mileage. And whoever thinks that reduced braking performance is okay in light of 'it looks prettier' needs a nice shiny new purse. Ive never heard something so idiotic come out of the mouth of a man.
bootymac
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BMW did something right with the i3. 70-0mph took 163 ft. The Kizashi takes 168 ft

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... ecs-page-4
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Woodie
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That's not going to be heavier, there's a good chance it would be lighter. On a good quality rim, the rubber weighs more than the metal does. I also see no need for bigger brakes. Handling may suffer a little, but braking wouldn't, and it does make sense that it would be more economical.
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murcod
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The cut down in rim and tyre width could certainly help reduce weight.

Tyre and wheel weights vary a lot for the same size. From what I've seen manufacturers will rarely opt for a lightweight rim design over something a bit heavier (ie. stronger/ less likely to break if it hits a pot hole or kerb) - unless we're talking exotic performance models.
David
SamirD
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Woodie wrote:That's not going to be heavier, there's a good chance it would be lighter. On a good quality rim, the rubber weighs more than the metal does. I also see no need for bigger brakes. Handling may suffer a little, but braking wouldn't, and it does make sense that it would be more economical.
Now that you mention it, that would be the case. :oops: But I disagree that you don't need bigger brakes. It's amazing how much better the Kizashi's acceleration and braking gets with 16" wheels. The torque created by a larger wheel does have a huge effect that imo needs changes in the brakes to still be safe.

Case in point is all the 24-26" rims we have in the HSV area. These cars have very, very big problems even slowing down 45-0; the stock rotors are simply dealing with too much torque.
SamirD
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murcod wrote:Tyre and wheel weights vary a lot for the same size. From what I've seen manufacturers will rarely opt for a lightweight rim design over something a bit heavier (ie. stronger/ less likely to break if it hits a pot hole or kerb) - unless we're talking exotic performance models.
I've seen this as well, and hence why I like factory wheels vs aftermarket. I've seen factory wheels survive things that would have destroyed aftermarkets.

And if the same design principle goes into these thinner wheels, I'm sure the weight of them would be around the same as a comparable thicker, yet smaller wheel in the same application. The main problem with all things being the same on the contact patch, is that you have a lot more torque on the brakes, and they will need to be upgraded in order to be safe.
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