Japanese Quality

[redmed]

I have read a few years ago that the WWII generation of Japanese work force worked very hard for long hours with the (shame?) loss of the war as the driver to raise the standing of Japan in the worlds eyes. That the younger generation was not as driven as their parents. Is this true? Has the quality of Japanese products suffered due the older generation retiring? I have respect for the quality of Japanese products being produced today but have noticed some shrinkage in the quality of Japanese products. If this is due more parts and assembly being done outside of Japan or has quality and attention to detail slipped just like it has in other countries in the world?

[Ronzuki]

I've always avoided the Suzuki models that were not built in Japan. Never had any issues with any of them as far as build quality was concerned. I remember looking at the SX4 when it first came out. Opened the door and took a look at the plate. It said 'Made in Japan' and I thought, good, they learned their lesson. Wife bought her first one (SX4) 6 or 8 months after that. I also had a strippo 1985 Made-in-Japan Toyota 4wd shortbed pick-up, same thing. My first brand new Japanese vehicle. Rock solid, tough as nails never an ounce of trouble. Compare the build quality of that to the POS 1982 chevy, I bought new, and traded it in on.......whooaa...

[Woodie]

GEO Metros, built in Ontario Canada in a joint GM/Suzuki plant are what made me a Suzuki fanatic. I had six of them and they were the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Almost every problem I had could be directly traced to abuse or a bad mechanic.

[Ronzuki]

I think the overall picture to reliability is the total package: engineering/design first, quality of the many parts suppliers used by the OEM second and lastly quality at the final assembly point. My Canadian built 94 GMC Suburban had its warranty used heavily in the first 3 years. Most, if not all, of those failures would most likely be traced back to the suppliers or the OEM's sub-assembly plants and possibly design itself. No fault of anyone in Canada's final assembly plant. Unless the axles, trans and engine were assembled there and the parts that failed in those sub-assemblies were made there. Many, many leaks from every orifice and then some. I've owned several new vehicles from each of the Big Three, Toyota and Suzuki. The Japanese 'package' has been consistently the best in overall quality (and value).

[sx4rocious]

I have owned American cars manufactured from 1979 all the way to 2009.
I have owned German cars Manufactured from 1985 to 2000.
I have owned Japanese cars from 1995 to our current herd of 2007 and 2010 models.

All I can saw is that the American products have started at "nothing exciting, but a good car nonetheless." to the current "well it only has had 4 recalls in 2 years, so I guess it's reliable"

The German products have gone from "fun to drive but exspensive to fix." to "Exspensive to fix!"

The Japanese products have started good and only gotten better IMO. The 1995 model I owned was a Nissan Hardbody Pickup. I will own another in a heart beat, and now I own 2 Suzuki products. There's a reason I only own Japanese cars now, and I don't see me owning anything else for a very long time...

[bootymac]

I think the overall picture to reliability is the total package: engineering/design first, quality of the many parts suppliers used by the OEM second and lastly quality at the final assembly point.

Nailed it. A good example is the VW A4 generation of cars that were assembled in either Germany, Mexico or Brazil. The Mexican and Brazilian built cars were less reliable, but the issues were due to the switch to lower quality parts.

I'm not even going to talk about German designs or engineering

[KuroNekko]

I personally don't think Japanese quality is in decline, however, there have been changes made on the part of Japanese companies to increase profits which may have affected quality. Much like many American corporations have outsourced production and labor to cheaper markets, the Japanese have done the same. It's not only cheaper, but in the auto industry, it makes more sense to build cars in the market in which you plan to sell them at a large volume.

Most of the Japanese branded cars found in North America were not built in Japan. All the big Japanese companies have plants in the US and/or Canada. While this move is totally understandable, it may account for any real or perceived declines in "Japanese quality". For example, most people are aware of the massive recalls that affected Toyota a few years ago. However, nearly all of the models recalled were US-made. Whether it be stuck accelerators, fire-prone interiors, etc. many of these Toyotas were made in the US with US supplier parts. In contrast, the models made in Japan with Japanese suppliers were not affected as much. Models like the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, most Lexus, and Scion models were largely exempt from the recalls.
Also, many Japanese companies still make their "halo" products back in Japan. Most Japanese luxury cars are made in Japan. The vehicles whose reputations ride on reliability and dependability are also made in Japan such as the Toyota Land Cruiser. It is said that this is done to have nothing compromise quality as these Japanese plants have the most skilled and experienced workers of their respective companies. Honda is an exception and makes some of their Acura models in the US and also has Ohio as the production site of their upcoming sports car, the redesigned NSX.
It goes to show that US-made Japanese cars are not bad at all. The Eclipse and the Legacy I've owned were good cars and were both US-made. In fact, my brother owns the Legacy now and it's very reliable and relatively problem-free despite his neglect for the car. He's not anything like me when it comes to cars and he has not even washed the car since I did so for him last December.
Also, most Hondas on the road in North America were made in the US and these cars have a reputation for reliability and quality.

Personally, I don't think it's the Japanese in decline as much as the competition getting better and better. Korean cars were pathetic 15 years ago. Now, they are good cars for good values, much like Japanese cars. Domestics have also gotten much better. New Fords, Chevys, and Dodge cars are nothing like the afterthoughts they were in the past. Just look at their interiors now and you'll see a world of difference in their interior quality. An early to mid 2000s Ford Taurus was designed like some Fisher-Price baby toy with cheap plastics, oversized buttons, and lackluster styling. Now, Ford sedans are rather nice and are appealing inside and out. GM and Chrysler products have also improved greatly and I actually prefer their interiors to some import brands.
In essence, the competition has improved drastically so the gap between the Japanese and their counterparts have narrowed in terms of reliability and quality.

Personally, I still prefer my Japanese branded cars to be made in Japan. However, I'll admit my bias in that. That being said, I'd feel comfortable getting a domestic or Korean car these days. When I give car buying advice to others like my co-workers, I often recommend Korean or domestic cars that have good reliability.
However, for me, the deciding factor is a combination of things such as price, reliability, fuel efficiency, powertrain pairing, and features.
The reason why I drive a Kizashi is not only because it's a good Japanese-made vehicle, but what made it stand out was the fact that it was packed with features yet offered with a manual transmission. Most rivals only offer the manual in the base model. They force you to get an automatic if you want the nicer amenities. On the contrary, the Kizashi offered everything you'd want (save for the AWD) with the MT for most model years. It was this factor that made the Kizashi stand out from its competition for me.

[redmed]

When I bought my Toyota 12 years ago the salesman made a point to tell me the car had a galvanized coating under the paint. I thought, just another sales pitch, but today I still see no rust. This is surprising, due to the heavy use of salt in Michigan. I notice rust on Chrysler's and Ford's newer than my Corolla.

The manual transmission offered on the Kizashi was the main reason I bought it, followed by the dual temperature control and the keyless entry. Not that thrilled with the keyless anymore would turn in the fob for keys in a heartbeat. That the Kizashi was built in Japan was another plus.

Another reason was my son's Suzuki Sidekick. We had a big field with hills behind our house and my son would jump his new F150 off those hills. All four wheels in the air, I would cringe watching. When the F150 was a year old I borrowed it and promptly returned it within a mile or two because the steering was so loose it was hard to control the truck. My son later traded in the F150 for a Suzuki Sidekick. He leaped the Sidekick higher than the F150. When the Sidekick was three years old I drove it expecting another sloppy suspension, but the Suzuki drove like new. I was really surprised & impressed.

[KuroNekko]

When I bought my Toyota 12 years ago the salesman made a point to tell me the car had a galvanized coating under the paint. I thought, just another sales pitch, but today I still see no rust. This is surprising, due to the heavy use of salt in Michigan. I notice rust on Chrysler's and Ford's newer than my Corolla.

The manual transmission offered on the Kizashi was the main reason I bought it, followed by the dual temperature control and the keyless entry. Not that thrilled with the keyless anymore would turn in the fob for keys in a heartbeat. That the Kizashi was built in Japan was another plus.

Another reason was my son's Suzuki Sidekick. We had a big field with hills behind our house and my son would jump his new F150 off those hills. All four wheels in the air, I would cringe watching. When the F150 was a year old I borrowed it and promptly returned it within a mile or two because the steering was so loose it was hard to control the truck. My son later traded in the F150 for a Suzuki Sidekick. He leaped the Sidekick higher than the F150. When the Sidekick was three years old I drove it expecting another sloppy suspension, but the Suzuki drove like new. I was really surprised & impressed.

My experience with a Sidekick was also a huge factor in why I went with another Suzuki. Though very under-powered, it was rock solid in terms of durability and reliability. I too abused my Sidekick in offroad adventures, yet it never let me down. When I discovered the Kizashi, I knew that it would be a good car given it was a real Suzuki much like the Sidekick.

You'd be happy to know that the Kizashi also uses galvanized steel on its underbody. I recall reading about it in some Suzuki press material on the Kizashi.

Some Toyotas are known for their rust issues. I presume you are talking about your Corolla. Some Toyota trucks have severe rust issues and some have even been recalled because of it. I know some critics of Toyota trucks cite their rust issues in why they prefer domestic models. However, as you stated, it's not like domestics are all that rust-resistant.
I'm curious to see how the use of aluminum in mass production cars will affect rust issues that are so prevalent in the Northern regions. In my recent trip to Ithaca, New York, I saw some severe rust on cars that was literally eating away the body. I imagine the use of aluminum in the new Ford F-150 may be a welcomed thing in these parts.
I read some articles on the Jeep Wrangler using aluminum in the future, but it wasn't all that welcomed given it threatened its production in Toledo, Ohio. The problem is that if it was to go aluminum, it would be cheaper to move production elsewhere. However, Toledo's economy and tradition are deeply rooted with the Wrangler's production there.

Lastly, I'm curious why you don't like the keyless fob. I personally love it and find it very convenient. Metal keys are indeed more reliable, but they wear out over time and start acting up in the lock cylinder. I also love the fact that you don't have to dig your keys out of your pocket (or purse for ladies) and can open doors and start the car without touching the keys.

[Ronzuki]

I read some articles on the Jeep Wrangler using aluminum in the future, but it wasn't all that welcomed given it threatened its production in Toledo, Ohio. The problem is that if it was to go aluminum, it would be cheaper to move production elsewhere. However, Toledo's economy and tradition are deeply rooted with the Wrangler's production there.

Glad I purchased my 2014 that was built before this news came out. I think I timed it as best as possible. Acquired it after a few million Pentastar 3.6's were built allowing ample time for the bugs worked out of the new engine design, and, before this latest news. Un-happy assembly workers' quality tends to go down-hill when they know they may be out a job. The ole give-a-crap-o-meter starts pinging rather low. As an example, when the news came out that the Jeep 4.0l I6 plant was slated to close, with no new production being brought in...well...my 2004 Rubicon's I6 engine was a giant piece of noisey, rattling crap and was the main cause for me to be in the Kizashi now. Unfortunately for me I learned all all the "issues" with that plant after the fact while I was trying to decide what the root cause of the problems with my engine were.

There's way more to quality than meets the eye, aye?