Autonomous Vehicles NOT Ready for Prime-Time

Non-Suzuki related topics. Anything can go here.
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Woodie wrote: Getting in my car one day last week I noticed this on the car parked next to me. I was very reassured upon noticing that it had a TPMS system:

Image
There ya have it, picture proof. :facepalm: Said it before...ya can't fix stupid and more tech can't fix it either. Maybe if they overinflate those bad-boys they'll get more of what's left of that tread gripping the road surface! :lol: :lol:
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
Woodie
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:09 am
Location: Laurel, MD

Ronzuki wrote: I just don't want it to be anything autonomous. :roll: :mrgreen:
Or automatic
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be a convenience store, not a government agency
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
KuroNekko
Posts: 5172
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

Ronzuki wrote:Here's one for ya Kuro...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/fi ... =BBFOI7J|1
I've heard about this and been following the development and the concept models for years. It's nice to see VW finally commit to bringing it back. I think the EV design makes sense for most people, but if there is a camper version like my '76 Westfalia, then a PHEV system makes much more sense. Campers need the flexibility and range to get to campsites and other remote places so EV range anxiety is not compatible with such a vehicle. Furthermore, not all campsites have electrical outlets to charge up. While you'll find them in nearly all RV campsites, the VW bus is small enough to camp at non-RV campsites and the majority of the camping I've done in them weren't at RV sites. Hence, a PHEV system would give it the efficiency and convenience of everyday driving on EV power, but the range and flexibility for adventure by using a gas or diesel engine. While at it, I'd also make it an AWD vehicle. Basically, a camper version should have a drivetrain similar to a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV; a vehicle with twin-motor permanent AWD with EV, Series Hybrid, and Parallel Hybrid driving modes.

Hopefully, VW realizes this if they intend on offering the VW Camper again. The "van life" movement is getting popular among younger generations and people are always interested in the VW Camper. While I see that an EV makes sense for the Bus as a "Transporter", the Camper versions need flexibility for real adventure.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

I like to climb into my transportation device at the end of the day and simply drive, leaving this type of BS behind, not be reminded of my day fighting technology even further.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 032951001/
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

One has to wonder why some, most, of these people aren't in prison...

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/17/us/fbi-h ... index.html
https://www.wired.com/2015/05/possible- ... -aircraft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ystem.html
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/ ... rplan.html
http://www.aviationtoday.com/2017/11/08 ... -dhs-says/

Funny how we just don't hear about all of this going on in the main-stream media as with other useless media fixations...wouldn't want the masses to know too much about the 'Reality of Things' I suppose.

It's going to be a great period in upcoming history to be a lawyer....which will be the unfortunate reality of the age of 'connected' personal automation and the Internet of Everything abuse. So buckle up and enjoy the ride (and the astronomical expense of it all).

I've been fighting with this crap in industry for the past 10+ years (to no avail). You can't beat it, you can't get ahead of it. All we do, constantly, is react to it, after the fact, at ever increasing expense. And now this obsessive fascination is progressing in the every day retail world. Yippie...
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
KuroNekko
Posts: 5172
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

Ronzuki wrote:One has to wonder why some, most, of these people aren't in prison...

https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/17/us/fbi-h ... index.html
https://www.wired.com/2015/05/possible- ... -aircraft/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ystem.html
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/ ... rplan.html
http://www.aviationtoday.com/2017/11/08 ... -dhs-says/

Funny how we just don't hear about all of this going on in the main-stream media as with other useless media fixations...wouldn't want the masses to know too much about the 'Reality of Things' I suppose.

It's going to be a great period in upcoming history to be a lawyer....which will be the unfortunate reality of the age of 'connected' personal automation and the Internet of Everything abuse. So buckle up and enjoy the ride (and the astronomical expense of it all).

I've been fighting with this crap in industry for the past 10+ years (to no avail). You can't beat it, you can't get ahead of it. All we do, constantly, is react to it, after the fact, at ever increasing expense. And now this obsessive fascination is progressing in the every day retail world. Yippie...
It is certainly frightening that some can hack into the vulnerabilities of things like passenger aircraft. That being said, I am glad that these vulnerabilities were exposed before they were used in malice. I'd much rather have cyber security and national security experts hack into these systems to expose their vulnerabilities than terrorists and criminals.

As for the prospect of lawyers in this regard, I'm not so sure I can agree. As someone in the law field, I can say there has been plenty of things to keep lawyers busy for centuries just involving human interactions. In fact, there is an entire field of law to deal with human-caused mishaps and wrongdoings onto others, whether deliberate or not, in civil (think $) court. It's called torts, but most will know these types of lawyers as "ambulance-chasers". Oh, and these lawyers make a good deal of money due to human error and human stupidity.
Let's also not forget the attorneys that represent their clients in DUI cases. Thousands pick up clients each day given our national average of 1,500,000 DUI cases a year. I can't imagine these attorneys are too optimistic about automated driving in the future for their field of practice. In essence, many lawyers exist due to flaws with humans whether it be deliberate, out of negligence, or even purely accidental. I can't see machines as being as juicy of clients, especially after the technology inevitably matures.

If anything to me, the progress of technology and its interconnections come as annoyances more than risks. Companies and people want your info, want you to like this, follow this, share this, download that, tag you, and generally spam you. Ads are everywhere and often generated for you based on your searches and interests as they've tracked your internet activity. It's the cost of "free". Many websites are free to use, most email accounts are free to use, there are countless free apps, etc. What they are not free from are the ads, tracking, and spam.
And now, in their infinite wisdom, some politicians want to hand over the reigns of the internet to private corporate entities.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Too many interconnections, annoying or not, results in increased risks by default I'm sorry to inform you. I waste more and more time now risk analyzing systems during quoting phases, and even more time figuring out how to price in mitigation of those risks...akin to pushing rope uphill, BECAUSE of all of the interconnections. When there were no outside connections to a system (or very specific well-designed deterministic connections), the only risks were the ones we may have created in our designs and processes. Plug a cable in, or worse, provide an over the air connection, to another network in this day and age, and all bets are off. Endless possibilities of failures, unintentional, malicious, just because ya can...doesn't matter. Anyone, anything, external with a connection and youve lost deterministic control, period. I've mentioned before there's not enough money on the planet to fully vet any system. These cars, from rival manufacturers I might add, "talking to one another" isn't going to be any different, and, NO ONE is going to willingly accept responsibility for any of the 'risks' created and gambled upon for profit. Manufacturers typically don't accept liability for anything willingly. Unwillingly when forced to by law, governing or...law suits. Brought by whom? This cluster-frig of automotive autonomy is only in its infancy stage.

Agree...disagree...doesn't really matter. The fact is pretty soon you're going to need to have a lawyer on retainer every time you go to flush a toilet for one reason or another. Or, keeping on swallowing whatever happens and like it. Infinitely wise politicians, (the law-makers), and the wiser than the rest of us judges (the enforcers), were mostly lawyers prior to the exaltations... just sayin'.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
User avatar
KuroNekko
Posts: 5172
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

I simply don't think the future will be the chaos you think it will. The main reason? It can't get worse than how it already is. Let me know when automated vehicles get tired, drunk, distracted, or deliberately reckless. I'm not sure why one fears automated vehicles so much when the incontrovertible truth is that drunk drivers alone kill over 10,000 people a year in the US. This is not an opinion. This is not a projection. This is fact as it applies today.
How many have automated vehicles killed thus far? And to consider that the technology is still in its infancy...
The reality is that there are greater dangers and flaws with human operators and the cost is staggering. As I have already stated, lawyers are very busy with the lucrative status quo. In fact, automation will likely make things cheaper in everything from fines, insurance, to legal fees given the reduction of the most flawed element: the compromised human operator.

Also, I think vehicle automation will likely be outsourced to industry specialists in the future. In its current infancy, automakers are going at it independently, much like infotainment systems several years ago but what's happening now? They are opting for Apple or Android-based systems that sync with smartphones. Not only is it better than developing bespoke systems, it's better for consumers too. I believe that the future of automation will likely follow suit and only a few companies will be developing the systems rather than each automaker continuing to develop their own. I also don't fear a system that uses cameras, sensors, GPS, and other instruments to operate and communicate, especially given the state of things today where one often has to rely on luck to drive among careful and attentive drivers.

Now I'm not saying that it will be a perfect and flawless world or that I am eagerly awaiting for a time when I don't have to drive. It's just that I never look at the flaws of one thing independently, especially if it serves as an alternative to something else. I turn it into more of a comparative analysis. It's my belief that automation will likely come to make travel much safer in the future given it will serve as an alternative to a compromised human operator. Does this mean we humans should stop driving? No. But should a vehicle system take over from someone who is obviously distracted, intoxicated, or isn't in a mental or physical state to safely drive? Absolutely. Why? It will literally save tens of thousands of lives a year in just the US alone.

P.S. I would never ever want a judge who wasn't a lawyer prior to taking the bench. You know, you want people who actually understand the law if they are to rule on it. Do you want a doctor who's never practiced medicine before for an operation or hire a contractor who's never built anything before to build your house? No. You want relevant experience and expert understanding for such important matters. I think ruling on one's rights by law qualifies for a need of such experience.
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
User avatar
Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Seriously? Slow, incremental, nibbling away at your azz chaos versus all of a sudden chaos? It's still chaos. Everyday there's system breaches occurring. Stuff you will never hear about that greatly affects you. Equifax's lax 'security' (a very loose term when used in context w/ cyber), for example, has disrupted my life. How long did it take them to let us all know they screwed the pooch after the fact? Yeah. The mere fact I had to freeze all of my credit through no fault of my own because of for profit data-mining with zero royalties being paid to me is utter BS. So, tell me, who's going to jail? Even if it were possible, who's going to step up to the plate and make me whole again? NO ONE. Software company said they had produced patches, and that Equifax didn't apply them or did so improperly. Finger pointing abounds and who's screwed? The public. Maybe, someday, the lawyers, courts and judges will get it all sorted out before I croak aye? That was just some lousy data getting stolen, no harm really, right? File your taxes early....beat the scammers to your refund....that's the official recommendation...gee, thanks. What makes you think 'connected' vehicles are going to be any less of a target? Do you really believe and trust that automakers of all entities are going to be completely 100% proactive 24/7/365 regarding cyber security?

This is what interconnection permits by nature, plain and simple.

Autonomous vehicles on the roads will just be another large chapter in the mis-guided "technology is going to make our lives better" mind-numbing saga. Again, swallow what's thrown at you and like it. Judges, doctor's, lawyer's, mechanics, financial advisors...all professionals right? All looking out for yours and my best interests right? Again, only when you have absurd amounts of free time and can pay to play.

When a lawyer tells you the best way to deal with the legal system is "to stay out of it completely", you know there's a problem. That's getting pretty freaking hard to do in day-to-day existence anymore.
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
Post Reply