Nissan Pushes Jatco to Resolve CVT Issues

[krell]

Found this in a Nissan forum...In the wake of quality and customer satisfaction with the continuously variable transmissions Nissan has been buying from affiliated supplier Jatco Ltd., the automaker is increasing oversight over the supplier. Nissan has experienced glitches as it launched a number of new models offering the CVT. The automaker is also expanding capacity around the world, putting additional pressure on their suppliers.

Earlier this year, Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn singled out Jatco by name, saying that Nissan will require it to explain how it will ensure customer satisfaction on any new transmission that it introduces. He also said that customer service issues with Jatco transmissions have affected Nissan’s profitability.

“Every time you launch a new CVT you always have some risks,” Ghosn said last month. “So we now have a process by which, before we launch any new CVT, they come before the Nissan executive committee to explain all the measures they have taken to make sure there are no surprises.”

Nissan holds a 75% stake in Jatco and Ghosn is reassigning its most senior North American manufacturing and supply chain executive, Bill Krueger, to Jatco, where he will be executive vice president in charge o Jatco’s operations in the United States and Mexico. Tomoyoshi Sato, who held that position previously, will return to Japan for a new assignment.

Jatco in part blames customer perception and unfamiliarity with how CVTs operate. Jatco CEO Takashi Hata said that some Nissan owners are not comfortable with how Jatco’s continuously variable transmissions work. Nissan’s small-car strategy is based on Jatco’s CVTs, but Nissan’s use of the fuel efficient transmissions has spread to most of their cars. CVTs are the automatic transmission offered for every car and crossover in the Nissan line, except for the Leaf EV and sports cars like the 370Z and GT-R.

Jatco’s has improved its CVT’s performance with reduced friction and greater operating efficiency which has helped Nissan be at or near the best fuel economy in their segments.

Customers have complained about the CVTs to Nissan dealers, probably because they are used to how conventional planetary gear automatic transmissions work. CVTs have no fixed gears so the engine RPM don’t rise and fall as the transmission works through stepped ratios. To an unfamiliar driver a car with a CVT can sound like it’s stuck in one gear.

Jatco will take an unusual step for a supplier and work directly with Nissan dealers in the U.S. to provide more consumer information about CVTs and also gather consumer feedback about its transmissions.

[SamirD]

Interesting. I do feel that driving with a cvt is weird, especially in snow since the torque varies on not only the engine rpm, but the cvt. I've found switching to manual mode more predictable for snow driving.

[KuroNekko]

Personally, I'd never own a car with a CVT if the car was bigger than a midsize and had an engine larger than a 4 cylinder.

Issues with Jatco CVTs are well known, but so are issues with Audi CVTs. It's not Jatco that sucks. It's CVTs in general.
I know a woman who recently bought a 2014 Nissan Pathfinder and she already needs a new transmission. It only has 4000 miles on it yet Nissan is being uncooperative. Issues with the CVTs in the new Pathfinder are well known and complaints are growing.

Simply put, CVTs don't do well in bigger, heavier vehicles. They are fine for small cars and hybrids. They are also the antithesis of performance and that's why even Nissan avoids them in the 370Z and the GT-R which are Nissan's sports cars.

[murcod]

IMHO CVT's are bad news behind any engine!

If there are any fuel economy gains it appears to be well and truly outweighed by potential long term reliability issues. It also makes little sense (to me) for a manufacturer to install a CVT and then program it (via software) to behave like a conventional 6spd auto.....

[LPSISRL]

IMHO CVT's are bad news behind any engine!

If there are any fuel economy gains it appears to be well and truly outweighed by potential long term reliability issues. It also makes little sense (to me) for a manufacturer to install a CVT and then program it (via software) to behave like a conventional 6spd auto.....

If they do that, what's the point of a CVT? Its increased economy and power is the result of keeping the engine at optimal RPM for power or economy. That's accomplished by having infinate gear ratios. Stepping it will defeat that as the engine moves in and out of the power/torgue bands instead of staying planged firmly in it.

Personally, I've grown to like my CVT. I've learned to drive it, which is different than a normal tranny, and it's smooth in delivering power and acceleration. I'm not sure of the statistics of long-term reliability either. You can find some people with any model car, engine, tranmission and there will be a lemon or two. For our Kizzies, the only thing that really matters is the actual characteristics of the model of CVT that Jatco manufactured for our car.

[murcod]

I wonder if CVT's are popular (with manufacturers) due to other factors eg. lower cost, more compact dimensions, lighter weight?

There are a few manufacturers sticking with conventional autos that work very well. For example my Mum has a 2012 Kia Ria with the 1.6l DI engine and 6 speed auto. The trans in it is excellent and is always in the right gear at the right time. It gets along very well off the line, and is responsive to accelerator inputs.

[KuroNekko]

CVTs work well in small cars, as in compacts and subcompacts. CVTs are found in hybrids like the Prius which have some of the highest reliability ratings in the whole auto industry. While I don't prefer them, I think they are okay for small cars with small engines.

However, if I was going to buy a SUV, I'd avoid anything with a CVT and seek a model with real cogs.
It's not a mystery why CVT-based SUVs like the new Pathfinder are having issues while 8-speed auto SUVs like the Jeep Grand Cherokee are getting more popular and critically acclaimed.

Personally, I think it was a mistake to put a CVT in a midsize aspiring to be an entry sports sedan. Suzuki did it for fuel economy because they were counting on VW to source sophisticated, yet efficient engines. While rivals worked on more efficient engines, Suzuki merely looked to CVTs for better MPGs. Suzuki should just have worked on a better newer engine with direct injection and put in a 6 speed auto. Again and again, I see all kinds of management mistakes Suzuki took. They really have poor business people and that's why they never got to be like Honda. They were always taking the cheap way and counting on others like GM and VW to aid them.

[SamirD]

Again and again, I see all kinds of management mistakes Suzuki took. They really have poor business people and that's why they never got to be like Honda.

I spoke to someone earlier today at the 'largest Suzuki parts distributor in the US' (their words not mine), and they reitereated the same thing. They said the product was good, it's just the management that wasn't. Sad, really. Especially since their motorcycle division has been tearing it up for over a decade now.

[Ronzuki]

They were always taking the cheap way and counting on others like GM and VW to aid them.

That's not an entirely fair statement. 'Always' is relative, maybe modern day Suzuki yes. They have been around a lot longer than most people realize. What other brand influenced the SJ410 and Samurai series of vehicles? Their still building new variants of those and selling them in New Zealand for off-road only use, of course, since big-brother deems them unsafe for road use (another load of crap). Hands down bullet proof, reliable, get you where you need to go through anything vehicles. You can service the damn things w/ the 1/2 dozen simple tools that came under the front seat. A prime example of simpler is better. No auto, not CVT just a plain old 4 or 5 speed gear box to a gear driven t-case and minimal electronics (if any).

Agreed that recent poor business and marketing decisions have led to the demise of sales on this continent.

[KuroNekko]

They were always taking the cheap way and counting on others like GM and VW to aid them.

That's not an entirely fair statement. 'Always' is relative, maybe modern day Suzuki yes. They have been around a lot longer than most people realize. What other brand influenced the SJ410 and Samurai series of vehicles? Their still building new variants of those and selling them in New Zealand for off-road only use, of course, since big-brother deems them unsafe for road use (another load of crap). Hands down bullet proof, reliable, get you where you need to go through anything vehicles. You can service the damn things w/ the 1/2 dozen simple tools that came under the front seat. A prime example of simpler is better. No auto, not CVT just a plain old 4 or 5 speed gear box to a gear driven t-case and minimal electronics (if any).

Agreed that recent poor business and marketing decisions have led to the demise of sales on this continent.

I meant Suzuki's export markets like the US. While you are correct that the Samurai was not influenced by GM, since the 90's Suzuki relied on GM's management too much. They should have learned their lesson when GM dumped them when they went bankrupt themselves. They independently developed the Kizashi, but again made the mistake of seeking others to supply a powerplant and only making a base engine.

It's quite a contrast from their Japanese operations. Suzuki does well back in Japan and does not rely on others. In fact, they are the masters of subcompact cars and one of the two main companies that produces kei-cars. Suzuki easily outsells Honda with kei-cars. Nissan and Mazda kei-cars of the past were merely rebadged Suzukis. Believe it or not, Suzuki outsold Nissan in 2012 in total vehicle sales in Japan.

Also, the Jimny (modern day Samurai) is still sold in many countries and is legal for street use. With the 1.3 normally aspirated engine, it's called the Jimny Sierra. In the JDM with a 660cc turbo, it's called a Jimny.
Here's the info on the car from Suzuki's global site:
http://www.globalsuzuki.com/automobile/ ... index.html