LED headlights

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n8dogg
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NickL wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:14 pm I am convinced that on poor weather conditions such as fog, rain or snow, the yellow light coming from halogen bulb will be the best to improve visibility down on the road. Or am I wrong?
You are right. I couldn't find an LED that ran the same color as a halogen...either very yellow or way too white.
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KuroNekko
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NickL wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:14 pm Thanks a lot guys. I choosed and ordered Phillips LEDs T10 and looking forward to install them when they arrive.

And what about the fog lights? I saw that some of the guys are replacing foglight bulbs with LED. However, I am convinced that on poor weather conditions such as fog, rain or snow, the yellow ligtt coming from halogen bulb will be the best to improve visibility down on the road. Or am I wrong?

What kind of bulbs Kizashi has in foglights? Is it H11?
Fog light bulb type and color temperature is really up to personal preference, IMO. While you are right that a color more warm/yellow on the Kelvin temperature scale is technically better to see through fog, not everyone deals with heavy fog to the point that it matters. Also keep in mind that many newer cars are now using factory LED fog lights with emitters that are the same color temp as the headlights (around 6000K). If color temp mattered so much in fog, I don't think they would do this.

The purpose of fog lights aren't to improve visibility down the road as much as help you see to the sides better. The beam for any proper fog light is low and wide. The main purpose is to illuminate the lines on the side of the roads (technically called fog lines) so you keep in your lane in dense fog. Any bulb or color temp that helps a driver through this would be an effective fog light. Now it's believed that warmer/yellow lights helps the human eye see through fog better with less glare so classically, many fog lights were halogen and some even deliberately yellow. Many 90's and 00's Japanese cars had factory yellow fog lights that basically became a "JDM" style signature.

I personally have 3000K (golden yellow) HID bulbs in my fog lights. I love them. They are very bright and illuminate the immediate front and sides of the road very well in dark conditions. However, I don't drive very much in thick fog and one important factor with fog lights is not to have something too bright that causes glare and reduces what you can see in the fog. This is why it is not advised for drivers to use their high beams in fog.

So in the end, I don't think LED vs. HID vs. Halogen matters so much with fog lights. I also don't think the color of the bulb matters so much either. I think it's more about tailoring the best type of bulb and color for the conditions you will use them in. For me, I only really use my yellow fog lights on rainy nights or on dark roads without street lights to boost visibility to the sides of the road. Actual use in fog is a very rare occasion for me.

Below is an old photo from my Kizashi but it demonstrates what my fog lights are like with yellow HID bulbs.

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2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
NickL
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I drowe car few times in extremely foggy conditions and as far as I remember, the only way I could see anything on the road is with very yellow fog lights. The low beams almost didn't helped at all. So if You ask me, in extremely foggy conditions where the visiibility is only a few methers, very yellow fog light tules.

Anyway, one of the rare things I hate about Kizashi is that when you have to change headlight bulb you have to completely remove the bumper and headlight. I know that Kizashi is not alone in this and that today many, many newer cars require to dissassemble a lot of parts when replacing bulbs, but my brain can't accept the fact that today you have to do a lot of work when you want to replace God damn light bulb in a car. I just miss those old school cars where you had a lot of space under the Boonet so you could comfortably do the job without needeing to remove half of a car in order to reach something you needed. :(

One more question guys. I have Suzuki Kizashi Sport model for European market which is I guess exactly the same what you guys call SLS in US. So I do have HID in low beams and these lights are bluish white. However the long Beam light seems to be more kind of yellow, more or less like fog lights. That's why I wanted to ask if Kizashi SLS model have HID lights in all three lighrs (low, high Beam and Fogs) or is it only in low beam?

Maybe a bit stupid question, but honestly said, until recently I didn't know that HID light could also be in warmer colours, around 3000K
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Woodie
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North America got no HID's anywhere, any model.

I put yellow halogens in my fog lights, I think 3500 K. But that's more because it looks cool than anything else. The way they are wired makes them near useless anyway. The point is to stay low and wide providing illumination without causing glare, but you can't turn them on without the low beams, which cause lots of glare.
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KuroNekko
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NickL wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:02 am
One more question guys. I have Suzuki Kizashi Sport model for European market which is I guess exactly the same what you guys call SLS in US. So I do have HID in low beams and these lights are bluish white. However the long Beam light seems to be more kind of yellow, more or less like fog lights. That's why I wanted to ask if Kizashi SLS model have HID lights in all three lighrs (low, high Beam and Fogs) or is it only in low beam?

Maybe a bit stupid question, but honestly said, until recently I didn't know that HID light could also be in warmer colours, around 3000K
So as Woodie stated, factory HID low beams were not offered in the US for any model, even the top spec SLS. It was an option in some countries and standard for the top spec in other markets like Europe and Australia but not in the US or Canada.

As for the bulbs: Only the low beams were offered as factory HIDs by Suzuki in any Kizashi. Most vehicles of that generation only had HIDs in the low beams and did not use them for high beam or fog lights. The high beams use a halogen H7 bulb. The fog lights use a halogen H11 bulb. I think all Kizashis are similar in this manner.

Now the reason I talk about HIDs and LEDs in my Kizashi is because they are aftermarket. I don't have factory HID bulbs. This is why I also have 3000K HID bulbs in my fog lights. The original H11 halogens were replaced with an HID kit.
Also keep in mind that factory HID bulbs all pretty much have the same color temp: 4300K. This creates a white light with slight warm. I would say it's somewhere between the warm/yellow halogen color and the cold/blue LED color in what is referred to as "neutral" in the Kelvin color temperature scale. When you buy OE HID bulbs for factory HID systems, you can bet the bulb will be 4300K. It's in aftermarket kits that you can choose warmer or cooler color temps.

What Woodie said about the fog light wiring in the US market is also true: the fog lights can only be used with the low beams. You cannot use just the fog lights alone, without modification. In extremely dense fog, even the low beams can cause too much glare and block the view of the fog lines on the road that the fog lights are supposed to illuminate. In other markets, I hear the Kizashi was wired differently. Australians report they can use their fog lights independently and also use them with the high beams on. In the US, the high beam usage automatically cuts out the fog lights.

Your question is certainly not stupid at all as this topic is very convoluted with differences in the Kizashi depending on the market. Also throw in that people like myself have aftermarket bulb kits, and it makes the topic quite confusing.
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NickL
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Well it really suck that Suzuki didn't offer Kizashi with HID lights for North America. To me it is totally unlogic to offer this kind of thing to European market but not for American.

Anyway, I just recently tested in my Kizashi and it is possible to run the fog lights when low beams are not beeing on. But at least position lights have to be on, and then it is possible to turn on front and rear Foglights.

It is good to know that Kizashi has HID only in low beams for Euro market. I allready ordered Phillips LED T10 position lights, and I was thinking that when I remove the bumper in order to install position lights, it wouldn't be bad idea to upgrade at least high Beam lights cause I intend to leave fog lights in yellow Halogen cause it does the job well. So i decided to put the LED h7 in High beam but the only quality product that I could find is from Osram and it costs arround 130 bucks for 2 bulbs. I am not sure if it's a smart investment becuase i use high Beams rarely, and investing more than 50 bucks in it would be a waste of money. So i thought about maybe putting these Halogen H7 bulbs with Xenon effect which should shine white. There are many cheaper options for H7 LED, but I just don't trust these no name chineese bulbs tha last short time and then again it will be a pain in the ass to replace the bulbs again with removing bumper and headlights.

What do you think Guys? Does anyone has better idea for High beam Bulbs?
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SAEED_KIZZY
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I use cheap Chinese LED (three-sided one) for high beam but every year before inspection changed it back to halogen to pass inspection and then go back to LED :facepalm:
removing the front bumper is not a big deal my record is less than 5 minute :lol:
NickL
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Well, to be honest, that is exactly what I want to avoid. I need a long run solution that will allow me to forget about lightbulbs until one of them actually die. If you ask me, I will always choose good quality halogen bulbs then no name chineese LED with questionably quality and longetivity. Been there, done that.
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Woodie
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NickL wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:05 am Well it really suck that Suzuki didn't offer Kizashi with HID lights for North America. To me it is totally unlogic to offer this kind of thing to European market but not for American.

Anyway, I just recently tested in my Kizashi and it is possible to run the fog lights when low beams are not beeing on. But at least position lights have to be on, and then it is possible to turn on front and rear Foglights.
Lucky you, that's the way it should be. I guess we're just not smart enough for that over here.
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KuroNekko
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It would have been nice to have the Kizashi with factory HIDs in US top spec trims but I think Suzuki was sensitive to the price and wanted to keep costs lower for all Kizashis in the US. In other markets where Suzuki was not necessarily only considered a "budget brand", I think they justified a Kizashi with more features and a higher starting price. Also, It's apparent that the HID low beams came with headlight washers and auto-levelers. At least in Europe, the vehicle also got rear fog lights. Sounds like it was a packaging decision as well. I heard that in some European nations, HIDs are only paired with headlight washers and auto-levelers. US regulations don't require headlight washers so most American and Japanese cars don't have them (regardless of HID or LED headlights) but you typically see them on Euro cars here.

As for the high beam bulb decision (NickL):
I have LED high beam bulbs. I think they were worth the upgrade but largely because US and Canadian Kizashis also have a feature Euro-models don't: Daytime Running Lights. Basically, Suzuki wired the high beam bulbs to always run at low power whenever the vehicle is on and the handbrake is down. The idea is that the car always runs with some sort of front light on to increase visibility to reduce the risks of a head-on accident. While most new cars have dedicated LED strips for DRLs now, at the time the Kizashi was made, it was common for automakers to utilize the high beam bulbs at low power (via Pulsed Width Modulation) for a DRL.
Now, given that most people don't use their high beams very often, it wasn't an issue in reducing bulb longevity. Also, while the Kizashi is notorious for premature bulb failure, it's largely limited to the low beam halogen H7 bulbs and not the high beam bulbs.

Keep in mind European models don't have DRLs that use the high beam bulbs. In this regard, the high beam bulbs are then mostly used when you need more light on a dark road for better downrange illumination. If that's the case for you, I'm not sure upgrading to LEDs is a worthwhile investment unless you frequently drive in very dark areas at night, use the high beams, and find them inadequate. Furthermore, the high beams use multi-reflectors and LED bulbs can cause glare and bad output patterns on the road if they aren't designed to ideally mimic the filament of a halogen bulb. Basically stated, you might get a brighter output with LEDs but the pattern may be scattered and less useful than a concentrated beam of light that the original halogens produced with the reflectors specifically made for them.

I've written a lot on this topic in my thread on DRL/High beam LED kits if you want to read through the pros and cons. While I don't regret my decision to use LEDs, I can't say I recommend it to everyone. It might be more work than it's worth unless you're keen on an LED upgrade from halogens and want a brighter and whiter high beam and DRL (for those with DRL). However, I certainly favor and recommend an HID kit for the low beams because the low beam halogens are prone to premature failure and HID bulbs work well in a halogen projector. Fortunately for you, your Kizashi came with the best solution: factory HID low beams.

Below is a photo of the Daytime Running Lights in use on a USDM Kizashi. I'm sure you don't see this in Europe with the Kizashis there.

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2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
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