Service Start System??????

[murcod]

The generic codes readers often won't pick up all the possible codes that the manufacturer's software can log. I found that out in my last vehicle, with my generic scanner missing a lot of the codes the car specfic scanner found.

[Ronzuki]

That's right I believe. I think I saw special Suzuki tool (scanner/programmer) listed on Suzuki Pitstop for servicing the ignition modules as far as code reading and key fob issues. These probably are not OBDII standard codes and are quite possibly manufacturer specific. When dealing w/ electronics, you must remeber that if positive of any device being connected to a system is made before the negative (common, ground, 0 Volt) surges are injecteded in to an electrical system as a whole. Sometimes these surges can be damaging to other components in a circuit or system. Doesn't matter if it's a car, a computer, a circuit board...
The power outlets (cigarette lighter style are old tech and not of a physical design to GUARANTEE that common circuit, ground, will be completed before the positive circuit. This is a must when designing hot-swap circuit board systems. The plug of the device you were connecting may not have had a reliable and solid ground connection before the positive pin made contact with the positive in the socket. I always plug stuff like that in before I start the car (power off). Then, everything in the car powers up at the same time. Your best bet is disconnecting the battery overnight and allowing the system to bleed down and reset itself. If that doesn't cure it, I'm affraid you may be in for a trip to a Suzuki service center. On a positive note, at least the car starts and drives w/o issue.

[SamirD]

When dealing w/ electronics, you must remeber that if positive of any device being connected to a system is made before the negative (common, ground, 0 Volt) surges are injecteded in to an electrical system as a whole. Sometimes these surges can be damaging to other components in a circuit or system. Doesn't matter if it's a car, a computer, a circuit board...

Such great info! Thank you so much for sharing this! It definitely explains a lot of stuff I've run into dealing with electronics for the last 20-something years. I'm always going to remember to ground or connect the negative pole first from now on.

[murcod]

When dealing w/ electronics, you must remeber that if positive of any device being connected to a system is made before the negative (common, ground, 0 Volt) surges are injecteded in to an electrical system as a whole. Sometimes these surges can be damaging to other components in a circuit or system. Doesn't matter if it's a car, a computer, a circuit board...

I'm a bit confused by that Ronzuki. I'm an electronic's tech and have worked on vehicles (as a hobby) for a long time - including doing EFI system instals.

There are very valid safety reasons for connecting a negative grounded vehicle's battery in that manner (to prevent shorting the battery). But for general connecting / switching of vehicle electrical components I've always found either the positive or negative can be switched.

There are examples of both in most vehicles eg. interior lights usually have the earth (negative) side switched, whereas the ignition switch will switch the positive voltage to the ECU/ starter motor etc. Some vehicles switch the positive to the headlights, others switch the negative (earth/ground.)

You can get "surges" switching using either method. It will depend on the load (current being drawn) by the device being connected.

[Ronzuki]

I've been working with electronics my entire life (think 8086 processor days and transistors). Designed and prototyped hot swap circuit boards for rfedundant systems that can never be powered off. This includes the actual circuit board etching mylars (also pre-CAD). Common (zero ref.) traces on card edges are ALWAYS made before the +5V, 12V or -12V connections for the reasons described above utilizing connectors that mechanically caused the proper connection without fail.
You are correct for connecting the power source (the battery) to the cars electrical system safely, less spark lessens chance of hydrogen explosion. I'm referring to the OP's situation of connecting a device to an energized DC power source in an already powered system. Something as simple as a statice discharge from the device being connected to the positive of the lighter socket could cause the elusive gremlin to rear its ugly heads. I now work in industrial controls and the practices of old don't seem to be employed in the average modern day electronic control components (read costs too much to design it corretly). Hot swapping anything now days typically results in an almost certain failure. If not immediate, then shortly there after. Hot swapping refers to connecting AND/OR disconnecting.

[murcod]

The OP refers to plugging a device into the cigarette lighter socket. Cigarette power plugs (by design) will make the earth contact before the positive centre pin. (Not that I feel that is relevant to the problem.) Vehicle electronics are generally very robust when it comes to surges - they have to be!

Something strange has happened to sx4rocious Kizashi, we'll have to wait and see what the outcome is. It still could be something simple like a fuse- it certainly sounds like it given the description.

[sx4rocious]

OK, it was a very long weekend for the Kizashi, but I tackled the problem head on. This was the result:

I already spoke of my wife's trip to the nearest Autozone, and the interesting lack of computer error codes. She also stated that they pulled the fuse in the Main interior fuse-block labeled "RADIO" and found it to be functioning properly.

Monday afternoon, we took the car into the nearest import dealer (Nissan, as the nearest Suzuki dealer is well over an hour away and the Nissan dealer has a good reputation for import mechanics in this area) and while the oil was being changed, I asked the service manager to have one of the techs check it out. I imformed him that if it looked very difficult, or if we got into diagnostic time, that I would take the hour trip and have it serviced at Suzuki. His tech checked the passenger-side fuse marked "AUDIO" and the one under the hood for the ignition. Both were found to be in working order and the tech decided to stop searching.
By this time, I was begining to grow weary and tired of the issue, so I called Suzuki in Bloomington Indiana to set up an appointment. BTW, the Suzuki tech seem overly anxious to price gouge me on service also, as he was twice as much for Diagnostics than the Nissan dealer wanted to charge....

Tuesday morning I had a couple hours before our guests started arriving for the evening festivities, so I decided to give the Service Manual another go to see if I missed anything. I took another approach this time, and went out to the car and tried all the electrical systems in it to see what worked and what did not. This was the result:

1. No audio
2. No power mirrors
3. No seat memory (power seats worked, but no memory)
4. "SERVICE START SYSTEM" code still on
5. No temp in the dash display
6. Either if the 12V power outlets

I then cross-referenced this list with the electrical schematics in the service manual to see if there was a simple common denominator. About an hour of listing all the fuses and relays involved with each of these systems, there was one simple common denominator.....

The fuse in the driver side block labeled "ACC"......

Given the console 12V power outlet also failed, I checked the "ACC2" fuse and also found it blown. My guess is that when my wife plugged in the DVD unit, the unit was still in the "ON" state. This must have created a surge in the system much like plugging in the vacuum when it is on. Lesson learned there! I also had no idea the start system would be linked to an accessory fuse causing it to start thowing error codes, but still function as designed. Needless to say, I unhooked the battery completely while "performing exploritory surgery" and the errors were off upon restarting the vehicle.

The results:
1. Happy Kizashi!
2. Saved a bunch of $$$
3. Forever endebted to the poster of the Service Manual, and
4. ONE HAPPY WIFE!!!!!

[murcod]

Well done.

[sx4rocious]

thank you!! I'm kinda proud of myself!! I don't usually fix things like this myself. I'm a supervisor at work, so I rarely do anything myself LOL

[murcod]

You'll have learnt a lot from it and be straight into any future problems. It's usually the simple stuff that fails - the first rule of electronic fault finding is check the power supply.

PS: Imagine how much Suzuki would have charged you for replacing those fuses!