Difference between RF audio systems?

[JakeRam]

I finally thought to actually play with the subwoofer settings today and concur that changing the subwoofer level does *nothing* to the bass volume. I feel like the seemingly respectable bass (in my less audiophilic experience) is coming from all the regular speakers. Or the level isn't actually changing in the sub...OR, are we sure the unit is even connected with the Kenwood Navi systems???

[naviguy]

I did that same test... and I agree

I believe, they connected the Front Left + / - of the Kenwood's internal amplifier, to the Front Left +/- of the Rockfords Low level input, and the same for Front Right, Left Rear, and Right Rear, and some how tied the rear speaker output into the sub input on the amp and therefore, there is no direct controlled sub output.

Regarding Sound Quality: I have found If you set the Xovers (High Pass Fronts, and High Pass Rears, Sub Low Pass)... you gain volume, but lose bass... and if you turn xovers OFF, you gain alot of bass but distort horribly at almost any volume.

I think the system needs to be re-wired, to the FL, FR, RL, RR, Sub RCA output, and converted to the Amps +/- wiring inputs.

I am trying to decide if I want to complain to Suzuki, or just figure out how to make it sound good by re-wiring it myself. (and voiding my warranty!)

[naviguy]

Post Re: Difference between RF audio systems?
Hi Everyone, I am contemplating fitting a 2 din HU to my rockford equiped Kizashi so this thread has been very interesting. The question that comes to my mind is, if they use a high to low line converter for the Kenwood (and presumably that is what the Scosche S106B is http://www.scosche.com/car-audio/product/1950), why not us the low level outputs of the Kenwood (surely a high level unit like the Kenwood would have them)?
I won't be using the Kenwood, but any HU that I choose will have low level amp outputs and, as an electronics tech by trade, I dont mind making up a custom adapter to use for this purpase.
Any info that you guys have will be greatly appreciated!

@ Minority
I think the Hi to Low Converter is what is giving us problems... I would suggest figuring out, how to use the RCA, and convert to the amp's wiring. The Kenwood should have RCA Outputs, but the 'port' installers may have thrown out the extra harnesses they didnt use. The RCA's usually are in a harness, and in our cars, it's probably not used.

[JakeRam]

Using a highly scientific "touch the sub with my finger" test I can tell that it is definitely working (which you guys knew I'm sure, but I had to see for myself), but I could also feel no difference in how much or how hard it "pushed" even when I turned the sub level to -50! I believe that naviguy has it absolutely right. Suzuki did not wire the system the way the Kenwood was meant to be wired and there's no dedicated sub-out wire, that's why the adjustments seem to make little or no difference. There's another thread on this board about the cross-over being prewired, I'm sure that doesn't help either, but why this unit can't be wired the way it's meant to be, is just laziness. That said, folks visiting this board contemplating the Kizzy, it's still the best sounding system I've ever had

[JakeRam]

...or...is the sub even wired separately from the amp or just part of the rear speakers? Could be that right?

[Minority]

...or...is the sub even wired separately from the amp or just part of the rear speakers? Could be that right?

Driven separately by the amp, but no seperate feed from the Hu to the amp. I guess the amp handles the crossover point.

[naviguy]

@jake..
I dont think its wired to the rears...

The reason is, I turned the Xover to High Pass on the FRONTS, and it significantly reduced the REAR subwoofer's bass.

Then, I turned the FRONT Xover back to THROUGH, and did the same to the REAR High Pass, and significantly reduced the bass also.

I think they some how wired it in the Front and Rear Speaker Outputs, instead of the Kenwood's RCA Subwoofer output.

[wyliec]

The problem is that the RF amp doesn't have a sub input, only front and rear inputs. There is nowhere to send the sub output from the Kenwood unit, unless you add your own sub and amp to the mix. Or better yet just bypass the amp altogether, and run something beefier.

[JakeRam]

So, in theory, one could install a dedicated sub amp and run the RCA out from the HU to it, disconnect the sub speaker from the factory amp and power it via the new, dedicated amp right? I'm not apt to do this to be honest, but it's interesting.
BTW, this thread started with the difference between the standard RF system and the Kenwood HU systems sounding so different. If the amp has no separate input for the sub from the HU why would the standard RF sound better? I can't imagine the sub is different.

[naviguy]

In theory, your response sounds correct, except, the system is currently using the Kenwood's internal amplifier outputs to run the RF amp's input, which is really introducing too much distortion from my point of view...

The factory Panasonic unit probably was most likely engineered and matched, to use a "LOW" level output from the head unit (pre amp), instead of an internal amplifier's Speaker output, so the distortion is nominal.

The factory Panasonic head unit probably also has strong pre-outs also, like 4Volt, or is perfectly matched to the input level requirements of the RF amp.

I am still torn whether or not I want to "re-build" and "re-wire" the factory system or not, and VOID my warranty...

IF I do, of course, I'll share with you all of my findings.

BTW, I work for a 12Volt Electronics company for the past 11 years, and have been installing Car Audio, Alarms, and other goodies since 1992.