KBB depreciation value of the Kizashi...

[sx4rocious]

My next choice of car without breaking the bank would appear to be a base wrx or legacy. Fusion and the 200 seem to close to a base entry level luxury car price.

The good thing about the Fusion and the 200 is that, historically, they depreciate faster than a Hollywood marriage. If you aren't interested in buying new (never owned a brand new car in my life, and I don't really see the reason to if I can save thousands on one a couple years older...) then you can find a 2010-2014 at about the same price if not much lower than a base WRX with a 10th the options. Fast depreciating cars have their merits. Domestics like the Fusion and 200 can be found extremely well equipped for much less than an import of the same year. Look at the 2013 Impalas lined up at the dealership for "$99 drives it away!!!" program pricing. Say what you want about program cars, but they aren't a bad buy for the used car market.

The real question would be if Ford and Chrysler ever decide to use AWD versions as program cars. If so, I would look at one in a few years.

[Knightstruth]

My next choice of car without breaking the bank would appear to be a base wrx or legacy. Fusion and the 200 seem to close to a base entry level luxury car price.

The good thing about the Fusion and the 200 is that, historically, they depreciate faster than a Hollywood marriage. If you aren't interested in buying new (never owned a brand new car in my life, and I don't really see the reason to if I can save thousands on one a couple years older...) then you can find a 2010-2014 at about the same price if not much lower than a base WRX with a 10th the options. Fast depreciating cars have their merits. Domestics like the Fusion and 200 can be found extremely well equipped for much less than an import of the same year. Look at the 2013 Impalas lined up at the dealership for "$99 drives it away!!!" program pricing. Say what you want about program cars, but they aren't a bad buy for the used car market.

The real question would be if Ford and Chrysler ever decide to use AWD versions as program cars. If so, I would look at one in a few years.

You bring up a good point about the depreciation of the 200 and fusion. I too before used cars over new. I guess I was thinking about how all those models (wrx, 200, and fusion) are in the next cycle so it would be a couple years before they dropped to a decent price.
I tend not to like going for last gen models as usually they don't have the lastest features I like and they aren't as good as the latest. I also won't buy the first year of an upgraded model as they tend to have the most bugs. Since most cars seem to go with a 5 year cycle I think year 3 is the best bet.

[paininthenuts]

Had a car dealer around my house yesterda buying a tree. He was impressed with the Kizi and had never seen one. He assured me that at some stage the value would actually start to raise because of the cars rareness.

[KuroNekko]

Had a car dealer around my house yesterda buying a tree. He was impressed with the Kizi and had never seen one. He assured me that at some stage the value would actually start to raise because of the cars rareness.

But for value to increase, there has to be desirability. The Kizashi is not desirable as far as the market and general public is concerned. The car is essentially seen as a colossal failure from a business perspective.
Unlike a Ferrari F40, the Kizashi will simply not be desirable as time goes so the value will be rock-bottom for this unpopular car from an under-appreciated brand.
It's kind of like the VW Phaeton. It's actually a nice car loaded with features to rival top-tier luxury models, but simply failed to sell and was discontinued in the US. It's now among the worst cars ever in terms of resale value in the US given how much it was going for new vs. what people are willing to pay for used models now.
It ranks as one of the greatest loss-producing cars in the auto industry.
Despite rumors last year that it was coming back to the US, I think VW wisely ditched that plan. After all, they already sell the Audi A8 here which the Phaeton is related to.
The new Kia K900 would be a good car to watch to see if consumers are up to the idea of paying $60K+ for a car badged the same as an unreputable 16K econobox again.

So in essence, I really don't think one should count on the Kizashi having any resale value in the future. Just enjoy the car itself since that's where the most rewarding aspect of the car is, right where it matters most.

[paininthenuts]

Had a car dealer around my house yesterda buying a tree. He was impressed with the Kizi and had never seen one. He assured me that at some stage the value would actually start to raise because of the cars rareness.

But for value to increase, there has to be desirability. The Kizashi is not desirable as far as the market and general public is concerned. The car is essentially seen as a colossal failure from a business perspective.
Unlike a Ferrari F40, the Kizashi will simply not be desirable as time goes so the value will be rock-bottom for this unpopular car from an under-appreciated brand.
It's kind of like the VW Phaeton. It's actually a nice car loaded with features to rival top-tier luxury models, but simply failed to sell and was discontinued in the US. It's now among the worst cars ever in terms of resale value in the US given how much it was going for new vs. what people are willing to pay for used models now.
It ranks as one of the greatest loss-producing cars in the auto industry.
Despite rumors last year that it was coming back to the US, I think VW wisely ditched that plan. After all, they already sell the Audi A8 here which the Phaeton is related to.
The new Kia K900 would be a good car to watch to see if consumers are up to the idea of paying $60K+ for a car badged the same as an unreputable 16K econobox again.

So in essence, I really don't think one should count on the Kizashi having any resale value in the future. Just enjoy the car itself since that's where the most rewarding aspect of the car is, right where it matters most.

Possibly I didn't make myself understood. Beacuase of it's rarety, and the fact I bought the car £9k below it's original list price, depreciation may be different to run of the mill cars. To be honest, I think it's increase in value will not start for many years, and even then it will be slight. Of course IF this does happen, I won't own the car then anyway. Like you said, I shall continue to enjoy my Kizi, and keep you all enetertained until the point comes when I get thrown off the site

[paininthenuts]

The new Kia K900 would be a good car to watch to see if consumers are up to the idea of paying $60K+ for a car badged the same as an unreputable 16K econobox again.
quote]

I had never heard of the KIa K900, so I just googled it. WOW, that's a great looking motor. Having owned 5 Kias I can gaurantee you it is a great car to drive and own, not to mention the fact it will never go wrong. That said, I agree the depreciation will be horrible.

[sx4rocious]

I still have to say that sites like kbb.com put one value on cars, but what really matters is what the general public would pay. Look at my sx4. Kelly prices it about $5500 or so. I have had several people state they would give me upwards of $8500 for it. If you look at asking price on ebay and autotrader for cars like mine (mine is still considered stupid low mileage for a 2007) they are asking $8500+. All I can say is that I have my doubts about the price Kelly puts on our cars. Even the SX4 is a rare car in my area, and I get asked all the time where I found it and where they can get one. I consided a $8500 once, but decided I liked my car too much to sell it.

I really think the Kia K900 is an experiment at best. It is an exceptionally nice looking car, but I really don't see it doing well, at least in my area. If you compare it to the Hyundai Genisis (I believe they may even share a platform?), the Kia is the better value of the two, however, in the midwest, the Hyundia struggled to sell even with close-out pricing. I've owned a Kia before. I saw the value of Kia and Hyundai long ago and always thought they were great cars and extremely under-priced for what you get. That being said, If I had $60+ to put on a luxury car of my choice, it most certainly wouldn't be Korean. Lexus, Infinity, or Acura would get my 60 bills first...

[KuroNekko]

The K900 is based on the Hyundai Equus, not the Genesis. The Genesis is smaller and is a rung below these full size luxury cars.

I also have my doubts that it will sell well, but I think the Koreans are trying to emulate what the Japanese did to German luxury. People were unsure about Lexus and Acura when they debuted, but it only took Lexus a few years to outsell Mercedes in the US after their debut.
The biggest difference (and I think their flaw) is keeping the Kia and Hyundai branding. Most luxury buyers want to feel like they are driving something special so they want to be differentiated. This is what a brand name does. The Japanese carefully noted this and concocted Latin-derived names for the brands and mimicked the German alpha-numeric nomenclature for their models. The Koreans left it as is which I don't think resonates too well with Americans. In fact, Lexus did so well as a brand globally that the Japanese reverse-imported the brand to Japan. Basically, the JDM Toyota Celsior was the Lexus LS overseas, but now it's called the Lexus LS in Japan as well.

The reason why the branding is important is because Korean cars were known as utter shit just a decade and a half ago in the US. I know a few people who owned early 90's Kia and they have nothing good to say about them. In fact, you rarely see a 15 year old or older Korean car on the road.
While they are much better now and some models have the reliability to rival Japanese cars, that wasn't the case even just several years ago. Given this history of being cheap and low quality cars, I really think distancing themselves from their parent brands would have been wise for these top-tier luxury cars.

All that being said, I really think the new Hyundai Genesis is a very sharp car. I saw one running in DC last week and thought it looked very modern and elegant though borrowing heavily from German styling.

[sx4rocious]

ahhh... I knew it wasn't the Genisis, I just couldn't remember the big Hyundai's name!

I agree with everything you said, but I would like to add that I think SOME Americans would actually buy the Kia product if it were more of a bargain. Branding has a lot to do with it yes, but I think of it like this:

We have a festival here in Indiana called "The Covered Bridge Festival." It's basically the world's largest flea market. (it attracts like 1.5 Million people over the course of 10 days) In this flea market, you are bombarded heavily with "Molex" wristwatches and "Oakey" sunglasses and "Mike's Air" basketball shoes. The thing is, people (1.5 million of them) flock here to buy them. Why? because they offere similar styling and prestige for a fraction of the cost.

I think the Korean cars would do much better if it were more of $125,000 car for a $60,000 price tag. I think this is one of the reasons the new Corvette is doind so well. Chevy isn'y really known as a company to build anything even in the ballpark of a Ferrari, yet everyone is raving about Chevy's first "supercar". I have not driven one, and only seen ONE in real life, but it looks the part, apparently drives AMAZINGLY well, and has more power for half the money of a similar Ferrari product. It's basically a $250,000 car for $125,000. It's a bargain in the supercar world.

The Kia, on the other hand, is $60,000 car for $60,000. I haven't really read many reviews, but I also haven't heard anything about the car that makes it stand out. If it were Maseratti Quadroporte (sp?) quality and power for BMW 3-series money, I think the brand name wouldn't matter as much. If the same car were badged as Lexus or Infinity, it wouls still be a $60,000 car, not a $100,000 flagship model. It sounds like it's a really good car, don't get me wrong, but is it a bargain in that segment like the new Corvette is in the sportscar segment? I don't think so...