KBB depreciation value of the Kizashi...

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Ronzuki
Posts: 2382
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:33 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Knightstruth wrote: I appreciate all you add to the forums but I think it would be wise to stay away from politics such as this in a car forum.
Thank you and I appreciate your concern ;) , however, freedom of speech isn't dead in my life, friend, despite what's at the helm of the country for the moment.
If you think politics aren't heavily involved in the automotive world and seriously affecting what it is you're driving down the road, its cost, the 'features' included/excluded/mandated, what it burns and the price to insure and register it...you had seriously better think again.

:drive: Back to our regularly scheduled topic....

A quick search on AutoTrader in my area yielded this:

http://www.twinpineautogroup.com/vehicl ... 1&s=110022
Ron

2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded :D :D )
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top ( :| sold)
Knightstruth
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:22 pm

Woodie wrote:They had a wider lineup from 2005 to 2008 when they were selling the Daewoo junkpiles. Remember the Reno, Forenza, and Verona? Neither does anyone else.

ImageImageImage

How about the USA built Equator?
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I remember those but I believe if Suzuki had the Kizashi, and introduced another model with the same quality as the kiz with it things would have improved. Kiz is now a very good used car.

I was thinking the other day of other cars that are hidden gems. Needless to say many didn't come to mind. Saab might be one but that is the only one I can think of that is realitively recent.
sx4rocious
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:31 pm

I talked with Mr. Suzuki (a renamed, reputable source) this morning. I really learned a lot of insider stuff from him. One of the most interesting facts I learned today is that yes, the Kizashi was designed to be sold in NA from the start, but ironically so was the Swift. According to Mr. Suzuki, both cars were originally spec-ed for sale in NA with all the safety and emissions features added to the car to make sale legal in the US. When crash-testing examples were sent to the US for the Kizashi (with the Swift soon to follow), corprate decided the expense was too great and the market simply wouldn't support two new offerings from Suzuki since their foothold in the market was already miniscule. Suzuki then decided that they had already spend MILLIONS in R&D to develope the Kizashi specifically for the 'murican customer (since all Americans want big, fancy cars because we're all rap stars or country singers), so thier thinking was that the Kizashi was the best offering of the two.

According to Mr. Suzuki, worldwide production of the Kizashi will most likely cease if and when they break even on it. It's slow sales in other markets and fast sales of the Swift have shown thier mistake. Apparently, the Swift needs nothing other than the initial crash and emissions tests to be sold in the US. Given the sales figures of both cars compared to the sales figures of other cars in thier segments, I believe the Swift would have been a MUCH better seller in the US than the Kizashi. This notion was seconded by Mr. Suzuki who stated that the Swift has FAR surpassed Suzuki's expectations and the Kizashi has proven a failure in thier eyes. I know we all love the car, but honestly, between the two, I'm not the only one that thinks the Swift had a better chance of saving American Suzuki...
Last edited by sx4rocious on Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Woodie
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All of us over at TeamSwift and GeoMetroForum have been clamoring for the Swift for ten years now! Can't tell you how many e-mails I've sent, petitions I've signed, and even sent a snail mail letter once.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be a convenience store, not a government agency
lockdoc3
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:43 pm
Location: Graton, New Brunswick, Canada

sx4rocious wrote:I talked with Mr. Suzuki (a renamed, reputable source) this morning. I really learned a lot of insider stuff from him. One of the most interesting facts I learned today is that yes, the Kizashi was designed to be sold in NA from the start, but ironically so was the Swift. According to Mr. Suzuki, both cars were originally spec-ed for sale in NA with all the safety and emissions features added to the car to make sale legal in the US. When crash-testing examples were sent to the US for the Kizashi (with the Swift soon to follow), corprate decided the expense was too great and the market simply wouldn't support two new offerings from Suzuki since their foothold in the market was already miniscule. Suzuki then decided that they had already spend MILLIONS in R&D to develope the Kizashi specifically for the 'murican customer (since all Americans want big, fancy cars because we're all rap stars or country singers), so thier thinking was that the Kizashi was the best offering of the two.

According to Mr. Suzuki, worldwide production of the Kizashi will most likely cease if and when they break even on it. It's slow sales in other markets and fast sales of the Swift have shown thier mistake. Apparently, the Swift needs nothing other than the initial crash and emissions tests to be sold in the US. Given the sales figures of both cars compared to the sales figures of other cars in thier segments, I believe the Swift would have been a MUCH better seller in the US than the Kizashi. This notion was seconded by Mr. Suzuki who stated that the Swift has FAR surpassed Suzuki's expectations and the Kizashi has proven a failure in thier eyes. I know we all love the car, but honestly, between the two, I'm not the only one that thinks the Swift had a better chance of saving American Suzuki...
Thanks for this! I badly want a Swift Sport! I think it would have sold great in the US and here in Canada too, where they pulled out at the end of last year too.
Last edited by lockdoc3 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Terry McKee, CSN (Chief Suzuki Nut)
(I don't actually own a Kizashi, sorry)
-------------------------------------------------
2009 SX4 Sport sedan (current)
2008 SX4 JLX hatchback
2007 XL7
2004 Swift+
1990 Swift GL sedan
1987 Forsa
murcod
Posts: 2279
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 pm
Location: Australia

lockdoc3 wrote:
Thanks for this! I badly want a Swift Sport! I think it would have sold great in the US and here in Canada too, where they pulled out at the end of last year too.
Sadly, it's very under powered and uncompetitive (even on price) against cars like the Fiesta ST. Like the Kizashi, it desperately needs more power to fulfill the "Sport" description.
David
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KuroNekko
Posts: 5182
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:08 pm
Location: California, USA

sx4rocious wrote:I talked with Mr. Suzuki (a renamed, reputable source) this morning. I really learned a lot of insider stuff from him. One of the most interesting facts I learned today is that yes, the Kizashi was designed to be sold in NA from the start, but ironically so was the Swift. According to Mr. Suzuki, both cars were originally spec-ed for sale in NA with all the safety and emissions features added to the car to make sale legal in the US. When crash-testing examples were sent to the US for the Kizashi (with the Swift soon to follow), corprate decided the expense was too great and the market simply wouldn't support two new offerings from Suzuki since their foothold in the market was already miniscule. Suzuki then decided that they had already spend MILLIONS in R&D to develope the Kizashi specifically for the 'murican customer (since all Americans want big, fancy cars because we're all rap stars or country singers), so thier thinking was that the Kizashi was the best offering of the two.

According to Mr. Suzuki, worldwide production of the Kizashi will most likely cease if and when they break even on it. It's slow sales in other markets and fast sales of the Swift have shown thier mistake. Apparently, the Swift needs nothing other than the initial crash and emissions tests to be sold in the US. Given the sales figures of both cars compared to the sales figures of other cars in thier segments, I believe the Swift would have been a MUCH better seller in the US than the Kizashi. This notion was seconded by Mr. Suzuki who stated that the Swift has FAR surpassed Suzuki's expectations and the Kizashi has proven a failure in thier eyes. I know we all love the car, but honestly, between the two, I'm not the only one that thinks the Swift had a better chance of saving American Suzuki...
None of this info was very exclusive if you've followed Suzuki automotive news or known about Suzuki models from other markets. I've read all these facts before and even discussed it in this forum. Automotive blog sites like jalopnik, autoblog, and truthaboutcars have written about the demise of Suzuki and the factors involved. Truthaboutcars even had a "Suzuki Deathwatch" series of articles and in one of their last ones, had disgruntled Suzuki Motor of America corporate employees revealing from the inside how Suzuki was falling apart. They revealed that some contributing factors of Suzuki's demise in the US was due to Japanese executives trying to dictate how to run the company in the US market. It was basically Suzuki in Japan telling them no to the Swift until it was much too late.

It was reported that Suzuki was developing a US-spec Swift and was considering importing it. The Swift long pre-existed the Kizashi so it's not like they were co-developed. However, they decided to go with the new midsize Kizashi and spent not just millions, but an estimated 1 billion US dollars on it.
Despite the expense and great hope for it, it was an international failure. I'd say it wasn't so much the car, but Suzuki's failure to market it properly and the fact that they went about dealership networks in the most pathetic way.

Suzuki also had very bad luck with timing. They basically released the Kizashi to the world when the economic crisis hit. Right when Suzuki was releasing their most upscale and expensive car is when everybody was looking to buy cheaper economy cars... like the Suzuki Swift. Sales for cars like the Mini and Honda Fit rose while sales of larger cars and SUVs plummeted. The combination of bad timing with the wrong car delivered the fatal blow for Suzuki in North America.

In many ways, they should have sent the Swift first for much less cost to them. Had the Swift succeeded in the US and brought Suzuki's name and reputation back from "Suzuki still made cars!?", that's when they should have released the Kizashi.
Suzuki chose to do the opposite and combined with the bad economy, the result was an epic failure and exodus of North America. Sadly, the Kizashi was a global failure.

I have little doubt the Kizashi will be discontinued in the near future given it's such a pathetically poor selling car everywhere. As I've already wrote, it's on an order-made status in the JDM and is pretty much a fleet car there.

murcod wrote: Sadly, it's very under powered and uncompetitive (even on price) against cars like the Fiesta ST. Like the Kizashi, it desperately needs more power to fulfill the "Sport" description.
The Swift Sport is outdone by turbocharged rivals like the Fiesta ST, but the Ford is rather new and the Swift is not. Also, the Fiesta ST has dismal reliability ratings thanks to the EcoBoost engine. Ford has experienced reliability issues across their entire fleet with these EcoBoosts. Not surprising given Ford's a newcomer to mass production gas turbos.

The Swift Sport is to subcompact hot hatches what the Civic Si is to Sports Compacts and Hot Hatches. It's outperformed by the newer turbocharged models, but is a lot more reliable and will actually be running with over 150,000 miles on the clock.
The Fiesta ST? Don't count on it. Ford needs a while to work the kinks out.

I've posted this link before but it's a testament to the Swift Sport's reliability and durability in performance-oriented driving.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/12/its- ... ental-car/
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Black)
sx4rocious
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:31 pm

First of all, I edited my initial post because I didn't realize I revealed so much about my source. He was a nice guy, and hopefully, there won't be any backlash toward him. You all have my apologies, and if you would Moto, please edit the quotes to reflect the changes...

Now, about the Swift, I think the main appeal of it is simple, if you're family oriented, get a 4 door hatch. If you want fuel economy, get the base. If you want a spirited drive, get the sport. It basically mirrors the Fiesta in that the car appears to a vastly wide audience. Everyone from the little old lady on a fixed income that needs reliability and economy to visit the granddaughter in college to the weekend autocrosser who wants a fantastic platform for modification. I think this is solely the reason the Fiesta is a success. Reliability aside, if you can find something in the right price range with everything you could possibly ask for, why wouldn't it be a success? The Kizashi is simply targeted toward too narrow of a demograghic at a really bad time.

I, for one, like the idea of a turbo, but would neverhave the use for one. Since I'm "monetarily challenged" at the moment, I can only afford one vehicle per driver in my family, therefore reliability is paramount to fun. My SX4 fits BOTH need and want very well. I wouldn't by a Fiesta ST specifically for this reason. I have nothing to fall back on if things go south. I love the Swift, and would gladly buy one in a heartbeat if one were available. I also know a few elderly that want the simplicity and style without all the fancy racer-boy crap offered by the competition. Ultimately, I do believe the Swift had a much better chance, but we'll never have the chance to find out...
lockdoc3
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:43 pm
Location: Graton, New Brunswick, Canada

sx4rocious wrote:First of all, I edited my initial post because I didn't realize I revealed so much about my source. He was a nice guy, and hopefully, there won't be any backlash toward him. You all have my apologies, and if you would Moto, please edit the quotes to reflect the changes...

Now, about the Swift, I think the main appeal of it is simple, if you're family oriented, get a 4 door hatch. If you want fuel economy, get the base. If you want a spirited drive, get the sport. It basically mirrors the Fiesta in that the car appears to a vastly wide audience. Everyone from the little old lady on a fixed income that needs reliability and economy to visit the granddaughter in college to the weekend autocrosser who wants a fantastic platform for modification. I think this is solely the reason the Fiesta is a success. Reliability aside, if you can find something in the right price range with everything you could possibly ask for, why wouldn't it be a success? The Kizashi is simply targeted toward too narrow of a demograghic at a really bad time.

I, for one, like the idea of a turbo, but would neverhave the use for one. Since I'm "monetarily challenged" at the moment, I can only afford one vehicle per driver in my family, therefore reliability is paramount to fun. My SX4 fits BOTH need and want very well. I wouldn't by a Fiesta ST specifically for this reason. I have nothing to fall back on if things go south. I love the Swift, and would gladly buy one in a heartbeat if one were available. I also know a few elderly that want the simplicity and style without all the fancy racer-boy crap offered by the competition. Ultimately, I do believe the Swift had a much better chance, but we'll never have the chance to find out...
I edited your quote in my initial replay to reflect your edited initial post. Good call to change it.

My SX4 fits both need and want very well too, as we can only afford one vehicle per driver at this time as well (ignoring the fact that my daughter is taking driver's ed right now). I too love the Swift, and would gladly buy one in a heartbeat if one were available (I'm considering importing one sometime, if I could afford it).

I also agree that the Kizashi could have been a success if it was marketed better (which applies to all Suzuki models, unfortunately), because it's a great car. It was just the wrong time and wrong way to sell in NA by letting Japan HQ decide what's best for the US and Canadian markets (and not letting the NA executives decide what they know would work by living and working here). I hate to say it, but Suzuki brought this on themselves, and we are the ones that have to suffer for it.
Terry McKee, CSN (Chief Suzuki Nut)
(I don't actually own a Kizashi, sorry)
-------------------------------------------------
2009 SX4 Sport sedan (current)
2008 SX4 JLX hatchback
2007 XL7
2004 Swift+
1990 Swift GL sedan
1987 Forsa
lockdoc3
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:43 pm
Location: Graton, New Brunswick, Canada

KuroNekko, you should edit sx4rocious' quote in your reply too. I just copied his edited post and pasted it over top of the original quote in my reply.

A question for both of you: Do you have any issue with me posting some of your comments and/or the thread link on my Suzuki Facebook fan page "Suzuki Auto Can-Am Fans" (https://www.facebook.com/SuzukiAutoCanAmFans)? My Canadian and American audience would love to hear what you learned and shared today.
Terry McKee, CSN (Chief Suzuki Nut)
(I don't actually own a Kizashi, sorry)
-------------------------------------------------
2009 SX4 Sport sedan (current)
2008 SX4 JLX hatchback
2007 XL7
2004 Swift+
1990 Swift GL sedan
1987 Forsa
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