CVT Transmission starting to fail

[Knightstruth]

I have yet to see any concrete data that suggest CVT trannies are less reliable than standard auto trannies.
There are not alot of Kizashies so I think whenever someone has a cvt issue it stands out more so. I remember when I went into the bmw e46 forums and all kinds of people use to have horror stories on the reliablity of the 5-speed auto.

Manual's on a whole are alot more reliable than auto/cvt. I'm not a manual guy either but that is the truth. That should make the manual-elitest happy .

[KuroNekko]

I have yet to see any concrete data that suggest CVT trannies are less reliable than standard auto trannies.
There are not alot of Kizashies so I think whenever someone has a cvt issue it stands out more so. I remember when I went into the bmw e46 forums and all kinds of people use to have horror stories on the reliablity of the 5-speed auto.

Manual's on a whole are alot more reliable than auto/cvt. I'm not a manual guy either but that is the truth. That should make the manual-elitest happy .

Go research the arbitration that Audi has gone through regarding their CVTs. Nissan is also facing huge problems with their CVTs. I personally know a woman who hired a lemon law attorney because her 2014 Nissan Pathfinder with 4000 miles is on its 2nd CVT and the 2nd one is acting up. Sadly, this is nothing unique to these new Pathfinders that are now CVT-powered CUV junk. Nissan completely ruined what was once a true contender to the venerable Toyota 4Runner (still a ladder-on-frame chassis and offered with a full range 4x4; a SUV by traditional standards).

Nissan blames JATCO (their CVT supplier) despite the fact JATCO was once part of Nissan and founded by Nissan engineers. I actually believe it's Nissan who is at fault for putting CVTs in vehicles like the Pathfinder. No one else is putting in CVTs in such large and heavy vehicles without a hybrid powertrain.
Keep in mind that the Kizashi's CVT is also supplied by JATCO. It's not made by Suzuki like the engine is. Many transmissions in many different brands have outside suppliers. JATCO, ZF, Aisin, and Allison are a few transmission companies that supply their transmissions to auto manufacturers. There are even engine manufacturers like Yamaha, Cummins, and VM Motori who design and supply engines to auto manufacturers.

In general, CVTs are causing more issues than traditional automatics. Not all CVTs are problematic, but it appears that the occurrence of problems is greater with CVTs. They are a relatively new technology and have only started being widely implemented in the last 10 years.

Also, going to a BMW forum and reading about problems should not be alarming. BMWs and other German cars are known to be unreliable compared to many domestics and Japanese cars. They are simply not a good sample to represent normal automatics. There are many traditional automatics found in cars like the Camry, F-150, Silverado, Legacy (older models) etc. that have high mileage and little problems.

That being said, manual transmissions are unequivocally the most reliable transmissions. They are simple and the parts that take the most stress are designed to be wear items such as the clutch. The downsides are that the clutch wears out over time and must be replaced and that the driver does the shift work which is actually rewarding once you get it down. The exception is stop and go traffic. Then it sucks.

When I only drove automatics years ago I never understood the 3 pedal elitism or joy manual trans owners claimed. Now, as a 6 speed manual trans Kizashi owner, I get it. I consider the AWD system the only saving grace to a CVT in a Kizashi. I have become a 3 pedal snob myself.

[Knightstruth]

I have yet to see any concrete data that suggest CVT trannies are less reliable than standard auto trannies.
There are not alot of Kizashies so I think whenever someone has a cvt issue it stands out more so. I remember when I went into the bmw e46 forums and all kinds of people use to have horror stories on the reliablity of the 5-speed auto.

Manual's on a whole are alot more reliable than auto/cvt. I'm not a manual guy either but that is the truth. That should make the manual-elitest happy .

Go research the arbitration that Audi has gone through regarding their CVTs. Nissan is also facing huge problems with their CVTs. I personally know a woman who hired a lemon law attorney because her 2014 Nissan Pathfinder with 4000 miles is on its 2nd CVT and the 2nd one is acting up. Sadly, this is nothing unique to these new Pathfinders that are now CVT-powered CUV junk. Nissan completely ruined what was once a true contender to the venerable Toyota 4Runner (still a ladder-on-frame chassis and offered with a full range 4x4; a SUV by traditional standards).

Nissan blames JATCO (their CVT supplier) despite the fact JATCO was once part of Nissan and founded by Nissan engineers. I actually believe it's Nissan who is at fault for putting CVTs in vehicles like the Pathfinder. No one else is putting in CVTs in such large and heavy vehicles without a hybrid powertrain.
Keep in mind that the Kizashi's CVT is also supplied by JATCO. It's not made by Suzuki like the engine is. Many transmissions in many different brands have outside suppliers. JATCO, ZF, Aisin, and Allison are a few transmission companies that supply their transmissions to auto manufacturers. There are even engine manufacturers like Yamaha, Cummins, and VM Motori who design and supply engines to auto manufacturers.

In general, CVTs are causing more issues than traditional automatics. Not all CVTs are problematic, but it appears that the occurrence of problems is greater with CVTs. They are a relatively new technology and have only started being widely implemented in the last 10 years.

Also, going to a BMW forum and reading about problems should not be alarming. BMWs and other German cars are known to be unreliable compared to many domestics and Japanese cars. They are simply not a good sample to represent normal automatics. There are many traditional automatics found in cars like the Camry, F-150, Silverado, Legacy (older models) etc. that have high mileage and little problems.

That being said, manual transmissions are unequivocally the most reliable transmissions. They are simple and the parts that take the most stress are designed to be wear items such as the clutch. The downsides are that the clutch wears out over time and must be replaced and that the driver does the shift work which is actually rewarding once you get it down. The exception is stop and go traffic. Then it sucks.

When I only drove automatics years ago I never understood the 3 pedal elitism or joy manual trans owners claimed. Now, as a 6 speed manual trans Kizashi owner, I get it. I consider the AWD system the only saving grace to a CVT in a Kizashi. I have become a 3 pedal snob myself.

Again I have NOT seen any concrete evidence to suggest cvt are worse than automatics. You mention german cars are unrelieable and I 100% agree with you that is why I don't consider audi an example of cvt reliablity just for the fact they are Audi . Nissan has been doing well with theirs from most reports.

As for elitest manual owners I have nothing wrong when they say it is more fun to drive a car that way or it is less expensive to maintain. I agree with that acutally. It is when things like ones man hood, stick or go home mentality get brought up that bothers me.

[KuroNekko]

You're wrong about Nissan. They have HUGE problems with their CVTs. However, they seem to affect only certain models and not others. Keep in mind that CVTs vary from model to model although the same transmission can be used in different makes and models.
JATCO is the supplier to Nissan, Renault, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and Jeep.
In fact, according to JATCO, the CVT found in the Kizashi is the same as the one in the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and Mitsubishi Lancer.
The CVT they are putting in the new Nissan Pathfinder is a colossal failure. Transmission failures are well known among car people with this new Pathfinder.

[Knightstruth]

You're wrong about Nissan. They have HUGE problems with their CVTs. However, they seem to affect only certain models and not others. Keep in mind that CVTs vary from model to model although the same transmission can be used in different makes and models.
JATCO is the supplier to Nissan, Renault, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, and Jeep.
In fact, according to JATCO, the CVT found in the Kizashi is the same as the one in the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and Mitsubishi Lancer.
The CVT they are putting in the new Nissan Pathfinder is a colossal failure. Transmission failures are well known among car people with this new Pathfinder.

I have yet to see that I am wrong when you yourself have said that CVT are relatively new and there is not enough data to out to say one way or the other. I am also well aware that they differ model to model but we have no CLEAR evidence that CVT are worse than AUTOMATICS. My wife's Rogue has the same transmission as mine so I will find out down the round if that remains to be seen.
Just like how different automatics vary from models/brand so do CVT. I do not see anywhere yet that there can really be an accurate comparison. Can't exactly do first generation CVT's because all the bugs have not been worked out. Subaru has some experience, where you could compare reliability of legacy tranny 05-09 vs 10-14 and see what we come up with.

[SamirD]

In fact, according to JATCO, the CVT found in the Kizashi is the same as the one in the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and Mitsubishi Lancer.

Interesting. Same part number? What are the engine/drivetrains on the Mitsubishis? It would be interesting if there is a higher power engine being used with our tranny. That would be a good thing.

Nissan did this on the 1st and 2nd gen Altima--they used the tranny from the Maxima which had 150/190hp v6 engines vs the Altima's 155hp 4 cyl. People would be able to run nitrous/turbos/high compression setups without ever having an issue on the tranny until going above 230hp. It would be nice if the Kizashi CVT has similar attributes.

[smsmart]

They are a relatively new technology and have only started being widely implemented in the last 10 years.

Eh, I wouldn't call them that new...just not widely implemented until the last 10 years or so. As I mentioned in another thread some time ago, my Dad owned a '92 Subaru Justy that had an "ECVT" transmission--in other words, an electronically controlled CVT. That was what...over twenty years ago? And that particular CVT was first introduced with the Justy in 1987. So it's hardly new technology at this point.

Granted though, the Justy was a much smaller car than the Kizashi or the Nissan Altima, if that has any bearing. But I do recall my Dad saying the CVT in the Justy was a headache, and that there were problems with both the electronics that controlled it and the steel belt that was integral to it being continuously variable.

Fast forward twenty years, and I'm surprised that so many cars are now getting CVT's. Although I figured that maybe they finally figured out how to make a reliable CVT...but some of the threads mentioning problems with them are making me think otherwise. However, the Kizashi represents a small population, so it's hard to say for sure based on threads here.

Again I have NOT seen any concrete evidence to suggest cvt are worse than automatics. You mention german cars are unrelieable and I 100% agree with you that is why I don't consider audi an example of cvt reliablity just for the fact they are Audi . Nissan has been doing well with theirs from most reports.

Nissan Altima's and Maxima's are pretty ubiquitous, and haven't they all come with CVT's for the last 5-8 years? They would seem like a pretty good sample to draw from to get an idea of their reliability...or at least, the reliability of their particular type of CVT.

[SamirD]

Nissan Altima's and Maxima's are pretty ubiquitous, and haven't they all come with CVT's for the last 5-8 years? They would seem like a pretty good sample to draw from to get an idea of their reliability...or at least, the reliability of their particular type of CVT.

Possibly, but that only covers that one transmission in that one application. There's always good ones and bad ones. These could just be 'good ones'.

What would be interesting is to see if the automatic transmission when introduced way back in the day had similar issues with design defects. If so, it's just a bit of history repeating.

[Knightstruth]

Nissan Altima's and Maxima's are pretty ubiquitous, and haven't they all come with CVT's for the last 5-8 years? They would seem like a pretty good sample to draw from to get an idea of their reliability...or at least, the reliability of their particular type of CVT.

Possibly, but that only covers that one transmission in that one application. There's always good ones and bad ones. These could just be 'good ones'.

What would be interesting is to see if the automatic transmission when introduced way back in the day had similar issues with design defects. If so, it's just a bit of history repeating.

Exactly I just don't think we have enough hard dat yet to say one way or the other. I mean if VW realised a CVT I would expect it to be unreliable vs if toyota came out with one. Right now there is alot of variables to make, model and generation of car.

[Ronzuki]

In fact, according to JATCO, the CVT found in the Kizashi is the same as the one in the Mitsubishi Outlander Sport and Mitsubishi Lancer.

The same, but most likely, different. For example, and this is fact, there are two different Suzuki part numbers for the 'same' Jatco model CVT in our cars, depending on the year. I had mentioned this in another thread/post somewhere after trolling the Suzuki parts databases with the parts manager at my Suzuki dealer.
In industry, the same 'model' number of any given item can have a magnitude of different 'part' numbers associated with it. These various part numbers are not always interchangeable amongst themselves even though they are from the same 'model' group. This is obviously true with the Jatco CVTs in the Kizashis. That same generic model number may be applied to other Suzukis (the SX4) as well as other brands. Typically, the model number is only half the story of the part number.