I'm gonna open up a whole can of worms here:
Assuming I had the budget, what would it take realistically to swap out the 2.4 liter 4 cylinder Suzuki engine with a V6 or V8 (perhaps an LS crate motor?) What all would be involved in such a swap. Please no comments on how expensive or hard it would be o rthat I'd be better off just buying an entirely different car. The whole idea here is to brainstorm about getting a Kizashi into super sleeper territory without going the RRM turbo route, which everyone seems to agree is kind of a big hassle for what you actually get in power gains.
I know there was, at some point, a V6 Kizashi test mule that was actually built by Suzuki, so obviously it CAN be done. but the question is what motor would provide the best performance gains with the least hassle in terms of custom installation?
Kizashi V6 or V8 Engine Swap
- johnhenrydale
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:08 am
- Location: Miami Beach, FL
2011 Kizashi Sport "GLS" 2WD
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
That's the very first I've ever heard of that, so EVERYONE doesn't agree.johnhenrydale wrote:The whole idea here is to brainstorm about getting a Kizashi into super sleeper territory without going the RRM turbo route, which everyone seems to agree is kind of a big hassle for what you actually get in power gains.
The huge problem is going to be electronics, anything other than a Suzuki J engine is going to require a different Powertrain computer, and that needs to communicate with the Body Control computer, the Keyless Entry computer, the Air Bag computer, and the Sunvisor computer. Okay, maybe I got a little bit inventive there, but it's only a slight stretch. When looking at fuse charts yesterday I noticed two different fuses for the gas flap motor, the integration is completely out of control.
Given enough money and talent, anything can be done mechanically, but I think boosting the engine which is already in there would be the best route. Remember, if you stray very far from the weight of the engine/transmission that's in there now you've got suspension issues on top of everything else. Don't forget the lesson of the MGC, one of the best handling sports cars in the world (at the time of course) that was turned in to an understeering pig by the conversion to a six cylinder engine.
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I'm just going to point out that this would be a massive and expensive project! But, if your just wanting to hypothetically think about it, your best bet would be to stay in the family. So find a Suzuki V6 out of a Grand Vitara and try to match it up. This would have the highest likelihood of having shared components, wiring, ect. And if there was a V6 test mule, you can bet it was with an in house motor; so it probably "fits".
As Woodie pointed out, though, the Kizashi is a very balanced vehicle. Suzuki spent considerable time and effort building a good all around car (as long as you don't have the CVT!). Plopping a significantly heavier engine down in the nose would radically alter the vehicles behavior. So if by "super sleeper", you're just talking about being quick in the quarter mile; yeah you could accomplish that. But if you want it for canyon driving or track days, I'd think that a turbo set up would actually be the more logical route to gain power because you wouldn't be radically altering the cars handling.
All that said, if you do decide to go down this route, it'll be cool! I'm all about people taking on crazy projects and building the car that they want. I've dreamt about doing a 6MT swap and turbo on an AWD Kizashi for years. That'd be a bitchin' sleeper of a car!
As Woodie pointed out, though, the Kizashi is a very balanced vehicle. Suzuki spent considerable time and effort building a good all around car (as long as you don't have the CVT!). Plopping a significantly heavier engine down in the nose would radically alter the vehicles behavior. So if by "super sleeper", you're just talking about being quick in the quarter mile; yeah you could accomplish that. But if you want it for canyon driving or track days, I'd think that a turbo set up would actually be the more logical route to gain power because you wouldn't be radically altering the cars handling.
All that said, if you do decide to go down this route, it'll be cool! I'm all about people taking on crazy projects and building the car that they want. I've dreamt about doing a 6MT swap and turbo on an AWD Kizashi for years. That'd be a bitchin' sleeper of a car!
1986 Suzuki Samurai JX (Tintop)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
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- Posts: 290
- Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:58 am
I’m not experienced whatsoever on aftermarket engine upgrades, so please pardon my ignorance, but what about supercharging? Is that not more reliable than aftermarket turbocharging? Power delivery would be more similar to what you already have, too, since there would be no turbo lag. Might not sound as good as a V6, though.
Current: Blue 2018 Mazda 3 GT 5-Door
Previous: Blue 2010 Ford Focus SES,
Black 2013 Kizashi Sport GTS-L (CVT; FWD)(RIP)
Previous: Blue 2010 Ford Focus SES,
Black 2013 Kizashi Sport GTS-L (CVT; FWD)(RIP)
Supercharging has its own drawbacks in that you have to run a belt off the motor, so while there is no turbo lag, you are increasing drag. They both have their positives and negatives.KlutzNinja wrote:I’m not experienced whatsoever on aftermarket engine upgrades, so please pardon my ignorance, but what about supercharging? Is that not more reliable than aftermarket turbocharging? Power delivery would be more similar to what you already have, too, since there would be no turbo lag. Might not sound as good as a V6, though.
You'd have to either have a supercharge made for the J24B, or figure out how to retrofit an existing one, no easy task. Turbo's are a little easier to just "plug-n-play", as it where. Still lots of work, but theoretically it'd be easier to build a turbo set up, and there is an existing one on the market for the Kizashi. That's why they are so much more common in the aftermarket than superchargers.
1986 Suzuki Samurai JX (Tintop)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
- johnhenrydale
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:08 am
- Location: Miami Beach, FL
Ok maybe not EVERYONE, but there seem to be so few actual RRM turbo Kizashi owners here and the one person who I knew had actually done it (armykizzyguy I think) was pretty unequivocal about it not being worth it. That said, he seemed to be interested in more of a super-tuned STI or Evo level of of performance. Have you heard from anyone who's done it and had long-term success here on the forum?
I had a feeling the complexity of the electronics ECU(s) and various sensors and wiring looms would probably be the major complicating factor here. This obviously would not be a project to be undertaken lightly.
as far as engine weight goes, I would assume that naturally you'd also then be gettin ginto a custom suspension system re-design to accomodate the increased front-end weight.
I do think the car handles very well, and understand about how changing one ( admittedly quite major) thing like an engine can lead to a host of other issues. I also get the idea of keeping things as they were designed from the car's designers OEM, but it also seems like the one consistent complaint people have about the Kizashi's performance is that it's simply not powerful enough.
And while I have no trouble regularly getting to triple digit speeds in mine, I'm always wanting a bit more torque off the line and, at times, the ability to get myself out of tight squeezes, or perform merges in highway traffic a little quicker than the stock powertrain will allow.
I had a feeling the complexity of the electronics ECU(s) and various sensors and wiring looms would probably be the major complicating factor here. This obviously would not be a project to be undertaken lightly.
as far as engine weight goes, I would assume that naturally you'd also then be gettin ginto a custom suspension system re-design to accomodate the increased front-end weight.
I do think the car handles very well, and understand about how changing one ( admittedly quite major) thing like an engine can lead to a host of other issues. I also get the idea of keeping things as they were designed from the car's designers OEM, but it also seems like the one consistent complaint people have about the Kizashi's performance is that it's simply not powerful enough.
And while I have no trouble regularly getting to triple digit speeds in mine, I'm always wanting a bit more torque off the line and, at times, the ability to get myself out of tight squeezes, or perform merges in highway traffic a little quicker than the stock powertrain will allow.
Woodie wrote:That's the very first I've ever heard of that, so EVERYONE doesn't agree.johnhenrydale wrote:The whole idea here is to brainstorm about getting a Kizashi into super sleeper territory without going the RRM turbo route, which everyone seems to agree is kind of a big hassle for what you actually get in power gains.
The huge problem is going to be electronics, anything other than a Suzuki J engine is going to require a different Powertrain computer, and that needs to communicate with the Body Control computer, the Keyless Entry computer, the Air Bag computer, and the Sunvisor computer. Okay, maybe I got a little bit inventive there, but it's only a slight stretch. When looking at fuse charts yesterday I noticed two different fuses for the gas flap motor, the integration is completely out of control.
Given enough money and talent, anything can be done mechanically, but I think boosting the engine which is already in there would be the best route. Remember, if you stray very far from the weight of the engine/transmission that's in there now you've got suspension issues on top of everything else. Don't forget the lesson of the MGC, one of the best handling sports cars in the world (at the time of course) that was turned in to an understeering pig by the conversion to a six cylinder engine.
2011 Kizashi Sport "GLS" 2WD
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
- johnhenrydale
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:08 am
- Location: Miami Beach, FL
"Bitchin' Kizashi" - that would be the name of my youtube video series documenting the whole process . My limited understanding of the i-AWD system employed by the SLS and GTS CVT cars is that it's quite tightly integrated into the CVT transmission. DO you know if it would even be possible to manual swap a CVT awd Kizashi?
SRN wrote:I'm just going to point out that this would be a massive and expensive project! But, if your just wanting to hypothetically think about it, your best bet would be to stay in the family. So find a Suzuki V6 out of a Grand Vitara and try to match it up. This would have the highest likelihood of having shared components, wiring, ect. And if there was a V6 test mule, you can bet it was with an in house motor; so it probably "fits".
As Woodie pointed out, though, the Kizashi is a very balanced vehicle. Suzuki spent considerable time and effort building a good all around car (as long as you don't have the CVT!). Plopping a significantly heavier engine down in the nose would radically alter the vehicles behavior. So if by "super sleeper", you're just talking about being quick in the quarter mile; yeah you could accomplish that. But if you want it for canyon driving or track days, I'd think that a turbo set up would actually be the more logical route to gain power because you wouldn't be radically altering the cars handling.
All that said, if you do decide to go down this route, it'll be cool! I'm all about people taking on crazy projects and building the car that they want. I've dreamt about doing a 6MT swap and turbo on an AWD Kizashi for years. That'd be a bitchin' sleeper of a car!
2011 Kizashi Sport "GLS" 2WD
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
No idea, just a dream. I'd imagine its "doable", but just like swapping in a different engine, is it worth it in terms of time and money? Probably not unless you got two cars for free and had the time to just try to make it work.johnhenrydale wrote:My limited understanding of the i-AWD system employed by the SLS and GTS CVT cars is that it's quite tightly integrated into the CVT transmission. DO you know if it would even be possible to manual swap a CVT awd Kizashi?
1986 Suzuki Samurai JX (Tintop)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
1990 Mazda Miata
1994 Isuzu Trooper
2012 Suzuki Kizashi GTS Sport (6MT)
- johnhenrydale
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:08 am
- Location: Miami Beach, FL
For sure, the one advantage to doing a project like this with Kizashi is they obviously have horrendous resale values so awd donor cars can be found for quite decent prices.SRN wrote:No idea, just a dream. I'd imagine its "doable", but just like swapping in a different engine, is it worth it in terms of time and money? Probably not unless you got two cars for free and had the time to just try to make it work.johnhenrydale wrote:My limited understanding of the i-AWD system employed by the SLS and GTS CVT cars is that it's quite tightly integrated into the CVT transmission. DO you know if it would even be possible to manual swap a CVT awd Kizashi?
so relatively speaking it’s a project that might actually be able to be accomplished for 15-20k
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2011 Kizashi Sport "GLS" 2WD
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
(GTS Upgrade project)
6sp MT
Azure Gray Metallic
Anthracite Gray Vossen CVT 19" / 5 x 114.3 +32
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2023 1:37 am
So I’m gonna just answer your question because I have yet to see anyone do that. Your car is front wheel drive from factory. In order to put the “LS engine” in it. You will have to put a rear differential, a longitude transmission (4l60e,400turbo,etc) and you would have to fix the front suspension. It would be easier to take the body and just put it on a truck frame more than likely. Goodness that would be a mess of work.