Avoid ethanol belnd fuel

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murcod
Posts: 2279
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 pm
Location: Australia

twoqttsdad wrote:
I'm get the feeling that this CVT and its current "shift points" is more fuel efficient when the engine is kept below 2,000 rpms as compared to the conventional auto trans. I could be wrong.
Yes, more revs = more fuel. I've kept an eye on the instantaneous usage on my last two vehicles and that always seems to be the case. (I used to think that you were better to have more revs with less throttle, but the trip computer disagrees ;) )

The good thing about the Kizashi's engine is it loves lugging higher gears. Fifth gear (on my manual) can be used at 60km/h, sixth gear at 80km/h - both with around 1750rpm. It can still accelerate cleanly and climb reasonable slopes from those revs. Impressive for a four cylinder engine.

It's just a pity that the engine doesn't like revving out so much. But I guess you can't have everything. :)
David
jute2003
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:44 pm

meh, The station that the coop I work for owns has both ethanol and nonethanol pumps. I've tried them all(ethanol 87 and 91 and 93, nonethanol 87 and 91 and 93) I think there's a slight bump in fuel milage for the non ethanol stuff but I don't think the octane matters.
fjroman2
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:15 pm
Location: Upstate, NY

Not sure how up to date this website is...but shows non-ethenol gas stations.
http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html
2013 Suzuki Kizashi SLS AWD - Premium Silver
Priors:
2007 Mazda 3S GTS
2004 VW Passat
1997 Nissan Pathfinder
2013 Honda Pilot (wife's vehicle)
twoqttsdad
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:41 am
Location: Hawaii

Couldn't stand it anymore so I mashed the pedal on a stretch. Noticed a difference in quicker throttle response and time to rev up.

Now I have to figure if it's worth paying $4.40/gal for the ethanol free stuff versus $4.02 for the E-10.
2012 SLS
Azure Grey
FWD CVT
pcmerlin
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:31 am

Just to add a few comments here, but switching fuel types between fill-ups is not going to give you a true reading on how well your car is performing with that type of fuel.
I'm primarily talking octane ratings here, but the same can be said of ethanol blends as well.

There are several factors at work here, any of which will skew your readings:

1. The fuel left in your tank - anything left in it will dilute the new blend you put in the tank.
2. Where you buy your fuel - Different companies use different additives which can affect results. Also, if they just received a new shipment of fuel, lots of junk from the bottom of the storage tanks can be mixed in with the fuel.
3. When you buy your fuel. In the US at least, there is a "Summer" blend and a "Winter" blend. In addition to other additives, the amount of ethanol in the blend also changes in some areas.
4. The computer sensors in the engine (ECU), powertrain (PCU), Air flow sensors, O2 sensors, exhaust gas temperature sensors, etc. are all at work trying to analyze everything going on to create the perfect blend of fuel and air to burn at the best efficiency. It can take several tanks just for the fuel sensors to detect the change in octane and make the proper adjustments to the air/fuel mixture.
5. The weather - changes in air pressure, whether the road is wet/dry/slippery will certainly have an effect on the results.
6. Obviously - where (and how) you drive. If you aren't driving the same or similar routes in the same levels of traffic, etc. then your results are going to be different.

As far as whether the different octane ratings will hurt the engine, the answer is most likely not. An engine set to use regular octane, will adjust properly in most cases to a higher octane blend. Where you can do damage is by using a lower octane rating that what your engine requires as all the sensors in the world cannot add the octane required by a high-performance, high-compression engine.

Finally, I'll get to my results with my Kizashi. My city driving in the DC area is certainly pretty predictable - lots of traffic and lots of stoplights. I take regular trips to NC every couple of months that total about 600 miles per trip, almost all highway miles. What I've learned so far is that in the city, when I'm idling away in traffic and stoplights, the octane rating/ethanol rating/additive mix etc. has absolutely zero effect on mileage. If I'm not moving I am getting zero MPG. When I am moving, a 1 or 2 mpg difference really doesn't mean much.
On the Highway, however, where I can maintain a constant speed over a long period of time, I can certainly tell a difference.
I've switched from regular "89" octane to premium "93" octane over several months at a time. In the city on regular, I get on average 18mpg. On premium it jumps to 20mpg. Roughly a 10% increase. On the highway, with regular fuel, I could get 28mpg and with premium it would jump to 34mpg. Just over a 20% difference. The catch is, that in order to get the full 20% jump, I would have to run at least one full tank of premium in the city, which essentially means my net gain in combined city/highway would be about 15%. Measured over a six month period of combined city/highway, the mpg calculator would settle in at about 22.2 mpg using regular. Using premium, it settles in at around 24.8 over the same period. As I do more city driving than highway, my net gain is only 12%.
At $3.70/gallon for regular and $4.00/gallon for premium, I still come out better by paying more for the premium gas as the premium is only 8% more. To keep the calculations simple, if premium is more than 10% than regular at the pump, I'll switch to regular for that fill-up, but otherwise I get enough benefit from burning premium to make up for the difference in price.

Sorry for the long diatribe, but hopefully someone will find it useful. 8-)
Northernstar
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:49 am
Location: Surrey Canada

Good for you. I dont have that patience to do all the tests lol
humble_kid
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Thanks a lot pcmerlin. It's really thorough and helpful!
WESHOOT2
Posts: 1976
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Vermont

You note what I note; premium is 'worth it' if the cost diferential remains sane.

And performance 'feel' differs.....
humble_kid
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:51 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

I think the main point is not premium fuel, which is determined by the octane level. I live in Canada and one expert said you get about same mileage with 87 (or 91 in aus) fuel and 91 (or 95 in aus) fuel. It’s about whether the fuel has ethanol or not. Here in Canada, the premium 91 fuel in Chevron contains up to 10% ethanol, whereas the 91 fuel in Shell has 0% ethanol. I was told you would experience a noticeable difference using these two fuels, even though they have same octane level.

Now the question is if the additional cost of the premium NON-ETHANOL fuel can offset the extra mileage you can get from the same quantity of fuel.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about anything.
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Woodie
Posts: 1196
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:09 am
Location: Laurel, MD

I don't think there's any non Ethanol fuel available in the States except for farm or marine stores.
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be a convenience store, not a government agency
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