Is there any Hard Data showing the improved Handling on AWD
Can anyone point to any article or test that shows with imperical data that the AWD Kizashi handles better than the FWD? I am wondering if there is a skid pad test out there or slalom figures to show if there is any difference. I would say that there is no difference in handling. While the AWD is putting putting to all four wheels, the car is heavier than the FWD. I think this would negate any benefits in the handling department. Can anyone prove me wrong?
2011 6spd. Kizashi Sport SLS. Azure Gray Metallic.
I'm not sure about statistical data to back up that the i-AWD aids in dry handling. However, owners of the AWD cars state they notice a difference between FWD mode and AWD mode even on dry tarmac. So the empirical (observation of owners) data is there to suggest there is actually an effect.
However, you bring up valid points. The AWD system adds weight. Also, most AWD systems aid in handling for cars that make higher horsepower. The Kizashi is simply not at the performance level where AWD would really make a difference in grip like say compared to a WRX, Evo, GT-R, etc.
Also, the AWD system is Full-Time, not the better Permanent AWD system found in more reputable and established AWD stalwarts like Subaru and Audi. Full-time systems are FWD-biased and only send power to the rear wheels on a need basis. Permanent systems always have some variable amount of power going to each of the 4 wheels.
Full-time AWD is believed to be better on fuel economy and allows the driver to turn the system on or off in some systems (like the Kizashi's).
Permanent AWD is always on but because it sends power to all wheels at any given time, it is better on grip. Demonstrations from Subaru comparing their system to rival Full-time systems clearly shows the advantage of Permanent systems.
That being said, the AWD system in the Kizashi is said to be rather good and I believe it. I simply don't have it because I have a manual transmission. That was the trade-off. Better acceleration and more dynamic performance vs. the AWD grip in all conditions.
I valued the performance from the manual more given I live in a region that doesn't see too much snow. However, I would love to have AWD in my Kizashi.
However, you bring up valid points. The AWD system adds weight. Also, most AWD systems aid in handling for cars that make higher horsepower. The Kizashi is simply not at the performance level where AWD would really make a difference in grip like say compared to a WRX, Evo, GT-R, etc.
Also, the AWD system is Full-Time, not the better Permanent AWD system found in more reputable and established AWD stalwarts like Subaru and Audi. Full-time systems are FWD-biased and only send power to the rear wheels on a need basis. Permanent systems always have some variable amount of power going to each of the 4 wheels.
Full-time AWD is believed to be better on fuel economy and allows the driver to turn the system on or off in some systems (like the Kizashi's).
Permanent AWD is always on but because it sends power to all wheels at any given time, it is better on grip. Demonstrations from Subaru comparing their system to rival Full-time systems clearly shows the advantage of Permanent systems.
That being said, the AWD system in the Kizashi is said to be rather good and I believe it. I simply don't have it because I have a manual transmission. That was the trade-off. Better acceleration and more dynamic performance vs. the AWD grip in all conditions.
I valued the performance from the manual more given I live in a region that doesn't see too much snow. However, I would love to have AWD in my Kizashi.
2025 Mazda CX-50 Preferred Hybrid
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Sold)
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Sold)
Nothing that I recall seeing other than the empirical seat of my pants. I have both 
(turn it on, turn it off). Under exactly what driving conditions are we comparing the two? Rain soaked roads? Snow covered roads? Plain old FWD can't hold a candle to the AWD. Hard driving in the twisties 
, as I enjoy, or grandma-like? My pants-o-meter tells me I prefer to activate the AWD in the twisties...dry, wet or snow covered.
'Improved Handling' means different things to different people so I have no clue as to where to find this empirical data you seek. Other than AWD exists for a reason and people, like myself, prefer it.
(turn it on, turn it off). Under exactly what driving conditions are we comparing the two? Rain soaked roads? Snow covered roads? Plain old FWD can't hold a candle to the AWD. Hard driving in the twisties , as I enjoy, or grandma-like? My pants-o-meter tells me I prefer to activate the AWD in the twisties...dry, wet or snow covered.'Improved Handling' means different things to different people so I have no clue as to where to find this empirical data you seek. Other than AWD exists for a reason and people, like myself, prefer it.
Ron
2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded
)
1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top (
sold)
2010 Kizashi GTS, CVT, iAWD (3/10 build date)
2011 SX4 Premium Hatch, CVT, iAWD (12/10 build date)
2018 Mazda CX-5 iAWD Touring
2014 Wrangler JKUW (GONE, traded
) 1991 Samurai, 5-Speed, EFI, Soft-Top (
sold)Ronzuki, you bring up some good questions to clarify. Snow and rain, I have no doubt of and have first hand experience as to the benefits of AWD...no arguments that in those situations, AWD is better. I am actually trying to see if its measurably better on a dry twisty road. Kuro has a good point that since the AWD is a front wheel bias and combined with the added weight which I believe is close to 500lbs, I would imagine that it is possible that the AWD may not handle quite as acutley as the FWD on dry tarmac twisties.
2011 6spd. Kizashi Sport SLS. Azure Gray Metallic.
sorry forgot to address....by improved handling I mean see which cars can take the same turn at the higher speed before spinning out. I beleive, but may be completely wrong that this is measured by skidpad?
2011 6spd. Kizashi Sport SLS. Azure Gray Metallic.
Skidpad 'grip' measures traction under very controlled conditions, unlike the roads we drive on.
I suggest-but-cannot-prove that the AWD Kizashi will return lower lap times in controlled conditions.
'Cause you ("I") can get on the power sooner, increasing exit speeds.
The AWD system in the Kizashi does NOT require front-wheel slippage to proportion power, AND it can proportion torque to a specific wheel or wheels.
Its weight penalty is insignificant.
That said, AWD helps little when barreling DOWN a mountain road......
I suggest-but-cannot-prove that the AWD Kizashi will return lower lap times in controlled conditions.
'Cause you ("I") can get on the power sooner, increasing exit speeds.
The AWD system in the Kizashi does NOT require front-wheel slippage to proportion power, AND it can proportion torque to a specific wheel or wheels.
Its weight penalty is insignificant.
That said, AWD helps little when barreling DOWN a mountain road......
Wait, so how exactly does the Kizashi's AWD operate? I assumed button off = FWD only and button on = AWD only? Or does it only send power to the rear wheels during slippage?
About FWD vs AWD: In theory the AWD can put power down better and sooner, especially when launching or coming out of corners. Redistributing power to the rear wheels also helps reduce under steer too.
Whether or not these advantages overcome the weight penalty on an AWD system is beyond me though
About FWD vs AWD: In theory the AWD can put power down better and sooner, especially when launching or coming out of corners. Redistributing power to the rear wheels also helps reduce under steer too.
Whether or not these advantages overcome the weight penalty on an AWD system is beyond me though
Bootymac you are right about this cars awd setup. It only applies rear wheel grip when it slips. From my reading on this type of all wheel drive that is what I can conclude. With the added weight of the awd I would ultimately surmise that "slip" comes sooner with the weight. One could deduce that the fwd is lighter and with the manual trans more capable of exiting an apex more efficiently due to the actual ability to more efficiently down shift and carry the lighter load. Would anyone agree that the awd in this car would not aide in handling if it were only on dry road and that the fwd must actually handle better in thisnscenario due to weight?
2011 6spd. Kizashi Sport SLS. Azure Gray Metallic.
Ehibb,
I believe you can drive a manual.
The question for you should be AWD vs. manual transmission, not FWD vs. AWD.
I would not even consider a FWD only CVT Kizashi. Not saying they are bad, but the other two actually offer benefits over the FWD CVT.
The AWD gives the car better grip in all conditions. While better traction on dry pavement is debatable, there is no question the AWD is an ace in slippery conditions such as rain, snow, etc.
The manual transmission in the Kizashi will actually make it feel like an entry sports sedan in more than just handling. CVTs suck power, especially off the line. A manual trans Kizashi accelerates without much hesitation. It's said to be faster than most other comparable sedans.
Every review I've ever read of pros comparing the manual vs. the CVT Kizashi (even with AWD) say the man trans is the best attribute of the car. It's what actually wrings out the performance from the car.
While technically the AWD may be better in the corners, trust me, you are going to want to flog a stick on a windy road to get the most out of the engine. After all, it's a 4 cylinder in a midsize car that weighs 3200 to 3500 lbs.
I just had my first CVT driving experience ever today in another car. While not the Kizashi, it's the same CVT as found in the Kizashi (Mitsubishi Outlander Sport) according to JATCO who makes the CVTs in both cars. It was miserable in off-the-line acceleration and I can't imagine it being much better in the Kizashi, especially compared to what I'm used to with the manual.
If you don't live in a snowy area AND you can drive a stick, get the stick.
I believe you can drive a manual.
The question for you should be AWD vs. manual transmission, not FWD vs. AWD.
I would not even consider a FWD only CVT Kizashi. Not saying they are bad, but the other two actually offer benefits over the FWD CVT.
The AWD gives the car better grip in all conditions. While better traction on dry pavement is debatable, there is no question the AWD is an ace in slippery conditions such as rain, snow, etc.
The manual transmission in the Kizashi will actually make it feel like an entry sports sedan in more than just handling. CVTs suck power, especially off the line. A manual trans Kizashi accelerates without much hesitation. It's said to be faster than most other comparable sedans.
Every review I've ever read of pros comparing the manual vs. the CVT Kizashi (even with AWD) say the man trans is the best attribute of the car. It's what actually wrings out the performance from the car.
While technically the AWD may be better in the corners, trust me, you are going to want to flog a stick on a windy road to get the most out of the engine. After all, it's a 4 cylinder in a midsize car that weighs 3200 to 3500 lbs.
I just had my first CVT driving experience ever today in another car. While not the Kizashi, it's the same CVT as found in the Kizashi (Mitsubishi Outlander Sport) according to JATCO who makes the CVTs in both cars. It was miserable in off-the-line acceleration and I can't imagine it being much better in the Kizashi, especially compared to what I'm used to with the manual.
If you don't live in a snowy area AND you can drive a stick, get the stick.
2025 Mazda CX-50 Preferred Hybrid
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Sold)
2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS 6MT (Sold)