Torque converter - CVT lag issue solution?

[Hawkzilla]

http://world.honda.com/automobile-techn ... VT/detail/

"During initial startup and acceleration, the torque converter effectively increases engine torque. This allows the Honda CVT with torque converter to deliver smooth, powerful off-the-line acceleration."

This is all I have been able to find that sounded like it could legitimately provide us Kiz CVT owners a solution for our problem, not to mention it sounds like it would actually HELP our fuel efficiency at the same time. The question now is, how do we get something like this for the Kiz and how much would it cost?

[Hawkzilla]

I KNEW I WAS ONTO SOMETHING...

http://epautos.com/?p=731

"Initial, off-the-line acceleration in particular is noticeably more sluggish because a CVT doesn’t have a torque converter as in a conventional automatic. The torque converter helps off-the-line performance by letting the engine build RPMs (and thus power) more quickly when you floor the gas pedal."

BINGO, we have our answer. It sounds like all Suzuki had to do was add a torque converter... like their competition had the common sense to do.

I'm very disappointed with Suzuki right now...

[Hawkzilla]

And now this article makes it sound like the Kizashi does have a torque converter on it...

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/ne ... izashi.htm

"The Kizashi comes standard with a six-speed manual, with the new CVT automatic transmission being an optional extra, available on both XL and XLS variants.

The CVT transmission has several control modes:

Normal mode, in which the engine speed is kept at the optimal level for the throttle opening and vehicle speed to promote fuel efficiency;
Starting mode, in which the CVT maintains a low gear ratio for strong off-the-line acceleration;
Acceleration mode, in which the CVT uses hundreds of shift maps to deliver a linear acceleration feel; and
Downhill mode, in which the CVT provides engine braking.

Although the torque converter provides a converter range in which the engine torque is increased to start up the vehicle, the lock up clutch is engaged at approximately 10 km/h to reduce both power loss and fuel consumption."

Dammit, I'm more confused than ever!!! There HAS TO be a reason for the extreme slow start... I do not buy "weight" as an excuse, not when the lag is that noticeable.

[EnfinityX]

its the gearing of the cvt, and overall i think its just the programming of the cvt. gear to a more eco and trans saving setting

[Ronzuki]

hahaha....I just had a vision of Hawkzilla running around like South Park's Tweek trying to figure this out! ....made me laugh, thanks!

Although I understand the burning desire to know why this is, I agree w/ EnfinityX. We get them to program it it to drive right, then mpg will go down most likely, and we can't have that now can we?

[Blackbelt]

Yes it has a torque converter, you can feel when it locks up on gentle acceleration, almost feels like a little shift.

Initial torque is electronically limited for CVT longevity. This is the way my JATCO CVT equipped Caliber is, and i am sure the Kizzy is the same way, since they are both equipped with the JATCO JF011E transmission.
The ECM is going to limit engine RPM between 0-20 to preserve CVT longevity and to prevent belt slippage. This is what causes the CVT equipped Kizzy to feel somewhat sluggish off the line. Once everything is hooked up and moving, then the limiting stops. That is why the Kizzy feels stronger in the mid and top ranges. If you want your CVT to live, there really isn't much you can do. The TCM will do whatever it has to do to preserve the transmission. That is the price we pay to have the CVT.
The difference can be surprising. My Caliber R/T is AWD. has the CVT and the 2.4 172HP engine. A Dodge avenger has the 2.4 172HP engine. The Avenger is a little bit heavier than the Caliber. The Caliber is a SLUG off the line, whereas the Avenger with a conventional 4 speed automatic will light up the front tires off the line.

[Hawkzilla]

Thanks everyone, that's what I had believed all along as well. That said, you would think a chip would make a pretty drastic feel, so hopefully someone comes out with one soon.

I don't care to be drag racing punks everywhere I go, but I would like to be able to avoid being hit by a car running a stop sign if I need to!

And yes, I was about that hysterical trying to figure out this lag thing last week... I needed a few beers when i got home to calm down! lol

[Blackbelt]

The TCM and ECM interface in such a way to prevent the initial torque control form being overridden. If you do defeat it, you will kill the CVT, as the belt will slip under initial high torque loads.

[Hawkzilla]

The TCM and ECM interface in such a way to prevent the initial torque control form being overridden. If you do defeat it, you will kill the CVT, as the belt will slip under initial high torque loads.

I'm no car expert but that doesn't sound good. lol

I will have to re-learn to live with it. Thanks for the very helpful info... was exactly what I needed to know.

[Schuzuki]

I have no problem with acceleration off the line. I simply stomp the gas pedal. It doesn't do the neck snap thing, but I have no problem with initial acceleration.