Torque converter - CVT lag issue solution?
Personally, the very initial speed isn't my main issue (I do think it could be snappier.. but its not downright horrible) my main issue is it seemingly changing down and loosing speed a few seconds afterwards. If I need to get away quickly I generally always go to Manual shift mode to get control over the low end gear changes.
It's a CVT, there are no low gear changes to control, hence the "variable" part in the name. The initial lag is there no matter what you do. You might not think it's an issue now, but when the time comes where you need to get out of the way from a stopped position, you will be singing a different tune.Shaneous wrote:Personally, the very initial speed isn't my main issue (I do think it could be snappier.. but its not downright horrible) my main issue is it seemingly changing down and loosing speed a few seconds afterwards. If I need to get away quickly I generally always go to Manual shift mode to get control over the low end gear changes.
TC - We get that you LOVE your Kizahi and that it's the fastest Kiz on the planet... I love mine too, but others on here have proved your weight (and other excuses) theory wrong and Suzuki indeed has purposely regulated the initial torque. Personally, I think they over-did it a bit to the extent that it's a safety issue, therefor I feel it's worth discussing.
Kizashi SLS CVT Azure Gray Metallic
Unfortunately we seem to be stuck on square one.
In the performance forum, RRM raised their head on the Piggyback and dyno issue (but have gotten silent again - nothing new there). They did not even mention the lag issues.
If it is possible to fix this with an ECU tweak - I would like to see them go for it. If they were successful - I would buy one of their units - not for the 5-7 hp gain, but to fix the lag.
As for fuel mileage impact - there should be only a positive impact, as this would only affect initial starts. Note that the CVT manufacturer touts the CVT's that have their supplemental lower gear for quicker starts also get better mileage. This makes sense, as you may be protecting the CVT with the current setup, but this in turn makes the engine work harder - as in starting up in 2nd gear would do in the MT setup.
So come on RRM - at least give it a whirl and see what you can do, and if the results are good, incorporate them in the piggyback. I would not give a damn about the dyno results at that point.
In the performance forum, RRM raised their head on the Piggyback and dyno issue (but have gotten silent again - nothing new there). They did not even mention the lag issues.
If it is possible to fix this with an ECU tweak - I would like to see them go for it. If they were successful - I would buy one of their units - not for the 5-7 hp gain, but to fix the lag.
As for fuel mileage impact - there should be only a positive impact, as this would only affect initial starts. Note that the CVT manufacturer touts the CVT's that have their supplemental lower gear for quicker starts also get better mileage. This makes sense, as you may be protecting the CVT with the current setup, but this in turn makes the engine work harder - as in starting up in 2nd gear would do in the MT setup.
So come on RRM - at least give it a whirl and see what you can do, and if the results are good, incorporate them in the piggyback. I would not give a damn about the dyno results at that point.
No, I think it's about expectations. I did not expect to buy a top fuel dragster, and I don't pull in front of people banking on being able to accelerate out of it.
Consider that I am coming from both a '93 Toyota 4Runner V6 that weighs about 5200 lbs (ie sloooooow) and a '96 Chevy Impala SS (basically, cop car with a Corvette engine - ie faaast). Yes, you could drive the Impala SS like you basically advocate, pulling out with too little room and accelerate out of trouble, but it really isn't a good idea, and it's totally impossible in the 4Runner, although there are enough bumpers and armor that I'm not too worried about somebody hitting me.
I can't imagine an instance where this behavior would be a "safety issue" that you would not have caused yourself by pulling in front of someone. The instances where I COULD see a lack of acceleration being a safety issue are all at higway-ish speeds, and I think we all agree the Kiz is quite peppy in that regard.
I guess what I'm having a hard time understanding is why this is such a big issue and why it's worth potentially serious tradeoffs in reliability, gas mileage, driveability, or flat out cost to fix, when avoiding the situations where its a problem is totally possible and FREE.
Consider that I am coming from both a '93 Toyota 4Runner V6 that weighs about 5200 lbs (ie sloooooow) and a '96 Chevy Impala SS (basically, cop car with a Corvette engine - ie faaast). Yes, you could drive the Impala SS like you basically advocate, pulling out with too little room and accelerate out of trouble, but it really isn't a good idea, and it's totally impossible in the 4Runner, although there are enough bumpers and armor that I'm not too worried about somebody hitting me.
I can't imagine an instance where this behavior would be a "safety issue" that you would not have caused yourself by pulling in front of someone. The instances where I COULD see a lack of acceleration being a safety issue are all at higway-ish speeds, and I think we all agree the Kiz is quite peppy in that regard.
I guess what I'm having a hard time understanding is why this is such a big issue and why it's worth potentially serious tradeoffs in reliability, gas mileage, driveability, or flat out cost to fix, when avoiding the situations where its a problem is totally possible and FREE.
2011 Sport SLS with nav Black Pearl Metallic
.. get out of the way from a stopped position? .. across a stop sign into cross-flowing traffic? running a red light in to cross flowing traffic? into the back of another car?... onto a curb amongst pedestrians? into the side of a building?... (shrugg). If I see a semi hurtling down behind be at great speed and it safe to move out of the way.. I'll pull over to the side and up a curb pretty damn quick regardless of what sort of car I have.. more risk of stalling a super-fast manual vehicle than a slightly slower cvt letting you down in these sorts of instances . Not much call for split seconds worth of difference IMO, but I do see what you are trying to say.. given the right set of circumstances having an auto trans quicker off the mark will move you quicker. I just think the chances of it actually being the difference are relatively slim.
For me its purely takeoff speed for getting pole position at traffic light changes where the lanes merge on the other side of the lights and not getting stuck waiting for traffic / someone to let me in! Sure I can't do this as much as I could in my Sv6 Commodore (depending on who is beside me!)... but as I am getting older I don't feel as much need to do this either It's more If I get stuck in lanes I am not used to / can't plan ahead for.
For me its purely takeoff speed for getting pole position at traffic light changes where the lanes merge on the other side of the lights and not getting stuck waiting for traffic / someone to let me in! Sure I can't do this as much as I could in my Sv6 Commodore (depending on who is beside me!)... but as I am getting older I don't feel as much need to do this either
It's more If I get stuck in lanes I am not used to / can't plan ahead for.Well Shaneous, you certainly have all the answers, so thanks for letting all of us that are concerned about the very noticeable lag in acceleration know we should just shut our yaps.
I guess in your vast wisdom you didn't consider coming to a stop sign at the top of a hill where you can't see what's coming very well. Or pulling out into traffic with a hill on your left where traffic comes over rather fast and you find yourself needing to get out of the way. But hey, we can't all be the perfect driver that you are. I have to ask, with your defensive posture on this subject, do you work for Suzuki? It seems like you're taking this subject rather personally. lol
I guess in your vast wisdom you didn't consider coming to a stop sign at the top of a hill where you can't see what's coming very well. Or pulling out into traffic with a hill on your left where traffic comes over rather fast and you find yourself needing to get out of the way. But hey, we can't all be the perfect driver that you are. I have to ask, with your defensive posture on this subject, do you work for Suzuki? It seems like you're taking this subject rather personally. lol
Kizashi SLS CVT Azure Gray Metallic
TC - I stop reading your posts when you say ridiculous statements like your "dragster" comment. Those of us that have discussed our concern about the lag (and there is many more of us than you) live in a reality where we can love a car but are intelligent enough to make obvious observations about some of it's downfalls.
We get it, you love your Kiz as it is, the wheels, performance, reliability, etc are all PERFECT. We're happy for you that you are so pleased with your absolutely perfect ride. Nuff said, buddy.
But I will let you get back to your extremism arguments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
We get it, you love your Kiz as it is, the wheels, performance, reliability, etc are all PERFECT. We're happy for you that you are so pleased with your absolutely perfect ride. Nuff said, buddy.
But I will let you get back to your extremism arguments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Kizashi SLS CVT Azure Gray Metallic
So, how did you convince mommy and daddy to buy the car for you little boy? Or do you just act like a privileged rich kid? Why didn't you con them into getting you an M3?
My point is that the car is what it is. The technical issues of why it is that way have been presented, and there is no "fix" without grenading your CVT. In other words, you are tilting at windmills and pissing in the wind.
This is a momentum priority vehicle. Between the astounding handling and the excellent brakes, the solution to this "problem" is cheap and easy - learn how to drive so as to play to the car's strengths. If you are too immature to realize that, sell it and buy something that suits your driving style better.
But in any case, stop crying over things that can't be "fixed".
My point is that the car is what it is. The technical issues of why it is that way have been presented, and there is no "fix" without grenading your CVT. In other words, you are tilting at windmills and pissing in the wind.
This is a momentum priority vehicle. Between the astounding handling and the excellent brakes, the solution to this "problem" is cheap and easy - learn how to drive so as to play to the car's strengths. If you are too immature to realize that, sell it and buy something that suits your driving style better.
But in any case, stop crying over things that can't be "fixed".
2011 Sport SLS with nav Black Pearl Metallic